Long Kriya – Home Version
By Uncle Scooby
WOW!! OMG!!
I just sat down to do Kriya to the MP3 and guess what? It actually had exactly the same effect as going to do Long Kriya in the group!!
I must say I’m somewhat a little confused. My Part 1 teacher insisted that the tape wouldn’t have any effect if played by itself and that a “qualified” teacher had to be there to take us through the sequence and then press the Play button.
I subsequently found out that in actual fact, a qualified teacher is one who has been “prepared” in such a way that they become an “instrument of the divine”, and that during the Long Kriya session it is actually the Grace of the Guru which flows through the teacher. The tape really has very little to do with it.
So, given that I am not a teacher, and there weren’t any teachers present in my bedroom or the surrounding area for some miles, I have to ask the obvious question:
HOW ON EARTH DID I GET THE FULL EFFECTS OF THE LONG KRIYA???
In fact, as I didn’t have to go through all the hassle of travelling to and from the center where we do our LK, I would go so far as to say I had an even better experience than I normally do. I can now chill out for the rest of the evening at home and do stuff I wouldn’t have had time to do otherwise.
If an AoL teacher is reading this, or anyone else who is in a position to explain this simple basic conundrum to me, I would really appreciate it.
Beyond The Art of Living 
Actually you might not even need to do the SK. You might be able to get similar benefits from other pranayams without doing SK. There have been bunch of articles saying that SK might even be harmful in some cases.
Hey – if you start doing it at home, they lose the opportunities to sell you more courses and to ask for you for more donations and to enroll you for more volunteer work. That’s why they want you to go to teacher’s house/center 🙂 Whether SK does anything for you or not is largely irrelevant for them.
@Srini – I’ll be perfectly honest here: LK, at least the first time I did it, blew my mind and body away completely. I used to drink heavily, smoke, and take addictive drugs beforehand, and afterwards all cravings for these things vanished. I fundamentally believe it has amazing benefits, at least for me and a few others who continue the practice. However I really want to know what these benefits are from a scientific perspective. Also, are there any ongoing long term benefits to the practice, either a weekly follow up LK, or even the daily home short SK?
@John – I think you’ve pretty much nailed it. You missed out one other thing that a teacher told me, and that is that you need a teacher there in case you fall asleep during LK, so that they can wake up.
I suspect that many if not most teachers actually believe the magical thinking that we are told about LK, that you need another teacher present to take you through the different pranayams and bhastrika and then press the Play button on the cassette recorder. Most teachers I know go to LK sessions or each other’s houses, so I suspect very few of them have actually tried listening to the tape themselves.
Oh, and one other reason to keep people going to the weekly follow ups: if LK is addictive in any way, it ensures the participant has a continued dependency on AoL as an organisation.
That’s because “Guruji” is deliberately giving u the effects this time. But one day, “He” will take it all away, and make u realize what a fool u are, to have left “Him” in the first place.
“JGD”
(**sarcasm alert**) 😉
Uncle Scooby,
Guruji in his infinite compassion has decided to grace the non copyrighted Long Sudarshan Kriya. Henceforth Guruji’s grace will be present while the tape is played. It was reported that Guruji went to the rapidshare website link where the kriya is posted, looked long and deep at the website, went into deep samadhi and energized the link. All downloads from the site have now the stamp of guruji.
This is a note of warning I want to give for people who engage with the ravishankr’s AOL and their associated companies in business activities. I was cheated by AOL of 50 thousand rupees in 2000 when I used to sell telephone EPABX. It was a big amount of money for me at that time and I suffered personal crisis because of this. I had gone on a sales trip to AOL ashram on kanakapura road upon their enquiry for an telephone exchange product. I met with AOL officials Vinod Menon and Arun Mahadevan. Initially they agreed for our quotation and i supplied the equipment to them. But when it came to payment they started the story that AOL is a charitable organization. When i persissted on payment and one day even lost temper i was told I am stressed should attend the basic course and so on. They also said that AOL bank account is always zero and they have no income. any money they get they distribute it to the poor. All the while these people were building sumeru mantap in ashram costing crores of rupees and they said they have no money. I was emotionally blackmailed and hence attended the course. I even met ravishankar (I will never call him sri sri) and was introduced by Vinod menon who took me into his kuteer. Vinod Menon before that wanted me to get this money waived off. looking at all the pomp and paegentry of ravishankar I was carried away during the course and I waived the payment. only later when i had financial problem i realised that i was cheated. I know of one more friend who is a civil contractor who has been cheated by aol. but he cannot do anything because they are too powerful and we are superstitious about gurus.
Recently I know myself and some of my friends have been getting calls on supplying products and services with arvind exports and sri sri ayurveda. I am off it and I request people who want to involve with these people to be cautious about payments and money. Get the money upfront and do not fall for all the emotional bullshit stories they tell.
There was no place to vent out these issues all these years because the clan was so powerful no one can go against them. It was more like the ‘DON’ – regular/normal people would dare to go against them just pay whatever is asked for – you can’t go to police since they are usually in these people packet. These blogs (Klim’s and Skywalker’s) gave the people a place to tell their stories/experiences and now and then AOL lackeys/PR ppl get irritated with these and come and vent their anger(ego) as well unknowingly provide more insight into the org. We need these blogs to provide this space so more can heal and help new innocent recruits.
well…aol brought you good karma – firstly you got grace of master, and secondly you donated money to AOL. I’m sure your business would have flourished after the good luck charm that AOL gave you ;).
Dear Friend,
I am writing this irrespective of the present topic. But in general to the activities on this blog. I myself have been in AOL over 12 years now and have gone through the known cycles of trust and fall. I agree totally about the wrong things going on in AOL. But then again i must say Beauty lies in the eyes of beholder. You see only what you want to see. Sure there are specific people involved in wrong practice but isnt it unfair to blame all for few? Certainly you must have seen many more people in AOL whom you really appreciate. Dont you think there isnt a difference between those playing tricks in AOL and you? we are in the same boat!!
I appreciate your noble intent of exposing those unworthy, but not being fuming but with a happy heart!! be quite specific in your examples, as at times its tiring to read all your emotions, as i certainly am interested to know what has really gone wrong!!
For ex.
1) regarding charity!! Neither volunteer nor a Teacher does charity from Course contribution, Nor does the organisers or Apex members does the charity from Course contribution then who exactly in AOL does the Charity?
2) Regarding the statement of Sri Sri of only 10 to 15% savings: One can understand that if Course teachers and organisers are supposed not to exceed 10 to 25% of the course contribution as expenses. But then its a comman sense that every person in a chain needs something to live irrespective of any kind of business. so another 10% might be going to maintain Apex bodies. 10% to the teachers, another 10% might be spent on Ashrams and yet 10% another on travelling costs of Guruji himself!! another 10 to 15 % of real charity probably. then what left is obviously a 10 to 15% savings!!
Everything that Guruji says isnt always a truth!!
Especially when its a matter of science!!
3) Regarding the 3 Eclipse in one month and a calamity statement by Guruji based on work done by a devotee: The fact is such incidences have occured every 2 to 3 years since the time immemorial. one can find it on NASAs website. It is therefore not justifiable.
4) Those Orbs are still considered as angels where as its a basic and common sense to Digital Imaging students that fine particles in a region between camera lense and the object of focus gets unfocused and captured blured and thats what is Orbs.
5) The victory of BJP and downfall of Congress was predicted in past but despite of all AOL efforts and divine blessings, nothing of that sort occured.
6) Time an again Guruji has been telling devotees that just another 2 years and then time is ours!! but even after 12 years i still hear the same statements!!
You and me might have left AOL with certain genuine reasons, but at the same time i must say every time i have done my personal saadhana, it has left me with such a serene, untouched and happy mind. And a new zeal to achieve my goals. Everytime i have been in Gurujis presence here in Germany it has given me hopes and a feeling of completeness. How magically the pending stuffs pops up in mind while doing Sahaj Samadhi meditation. this experience is undeniable!!
Though you and I might have left AOL but i certainly believe that there is still some abilities of discrimination left to not to blame whole foundation and not to disclose what is so sacred for someone else.
Obviously not every person on the path understands the knowledge the way you do. and they might fall prey to unfair practices or speak out unmeasured claims!! Try to understand!!
Well enough said.
The most interesting thing is we get so much involved in the activities and forget to see the world through different scale!!
watch the following 3 videos and observe the shift.
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcBV-cXVWFw
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdwOlk6HIVc (Watch atleast the part that starts from time 12 min 40 sec)
3) The life seriese on youtube by Sir David Attenborough.
Smiles
“and yet 10% another on travelling costs of Guruji himself!! ”
– Guruji’s trvelling costs are calculated separately…it comes => 10000 Euros for Europe visit, +Other local flight costs…
for US trips 10000 – 15000 US$
these are two-way ticket costs (I guess First Class), respective Country/Organization pays to “Sri Sri Ravi Shankar Trust”, Arvind sends Invoices after his every trip!
That is only in plane ticket, add hotel and food and the rest of the goodies that he likes and demands. Once I put him in a 5 star hotel a devotee had offered to give as his donation and made the reservations himself. Granted, a NICE 5 star hotel. He took me to a side and yelled at me. WHY had I not put him in the OTHER 5 star hotel he saw in the way from the airport. It was more luxurious (where Madonna had stayed). I did not understand. What is the difference between a 5 star hotel and another 5 star hotel? And was he there to grace the devotees with his presence and deep knowledge or to enjoy comfort, luxury, status and vanity? I cannot imagine the Dalai Lama making a fuzz and certainly, I cannot understand a “spiritual guru” being so demanding about his comfort, esp. when his DSN courses are about “going beyond the comfort zone”, with which he used as an excuse to “stretch” his full-time teachers by having them in pitiful conditions. On another trip, we put him up in a mansion. His own private room and amazing bathroom. He yelled at us for not having put better soaps for him. Difficult to please this enlightened being. And then you’ll hear the excuse: “The ways of the enlightened are a mystery” or “Oh he is doing that to remove some bad karma from you.” I think it is not a mystery anymore. Just with his plane tickets and hotels, we could actually build a tiny village or send many kids to school or buy them shoes feed a little town. I guess that seva is not as important as the seva of offering the guru luxury and keeping his temper and queen personality under control.
@pondering
“Though you and I might have left AOL but i certainly believe that there is still some abilities of discrimination left to not to blame whole foundation and not to disclose what is so sacred for someone else. ”
What is so secret about all those AOL sacred secrets. What this blog has exposed is the outright plgiarism involved in the so called sacred knowledge of AOL. I have done EST (erhard seminar training) in late 70s in Cannada and while going through the AOL TTC and YES+ notes all i can see is they have lifted atleast 80% of the stuff from EST and Landmark forum. The same approach and techniques.
Inspired by beat zen and Alan Watts, Wernard Erhard used to use exactly the same aphorishms in EST – ‘accept everything and every situation as is’,’What you resist persists’, ‘dont be a fotball of others opinion’ etc. I REPEAT EXACTLY the SAME Words. At least AOL should be honest to accept their sources. Honesty I guess is not part of their value system. In EST there was a technique of gazing at a partner’s eyes to basically get rid of boundaries and understand inner chatter. This is used in most self help and tantra workshops. EST in a way were trendsetters as there are many people who follow their techniques. AOL got these techniques into their programs in 1989. They copied rishi Prabhakar who used EST in his Sidda samadhi yoga. Rishi Prabhakar was atleast honest enough to admit his indebtness to the sources. But in AOL it is claimed that these are revelead knowledge of Ravishankar.
About Pranayama and Sudarshan Kriya it is Yogi Bhajan’s pranayama kriyas plus rebirthing exercise added. Padma Sadhana is raja yoga pranayama and asanas taught by Mahesh yogi and many many others. Exactly in the same order. And Sahaj is TM, a straight lift of his Guru’s technique. I wonder what nonsense copyright bullshit these people are talking about. Why AOL people are getting so excited and paranoid about their teachings being exposed. And since they beleive that without their Guru’s grace nothing of these will work why are they so bothered. I would suggest that they should relax and take life less seriously instead of getting all excited and creating so much stress for themselves.
Dear Raja,
I appreciate your reply. I learnt something new. I would appreciate even more if people on this blog come up with such concrete informations without being biased. Eventually we can summarize all the critics of these blogs in brief without any emotions and biases.
Here’s the rub: Some of us have experienced, first hand, many of the things you have read on these two blogs. I don’t know how much more “concrete” anyone could get. From my own experience, I am very frightened to be too specific for fear that an AOL person will read this, pass it to Ravi Shankar, and then I know what follows: the phone calls, threatening (I’m not kidding). People actually visiting your home, telling you in sugary tones how bad you are, how you will be punished. It goes on and on. You cannot imagine how ugly SSRS gets when he is crossed and angry (yes, he gets very very angry and says many terrible things to people who are leaving at times, if they know too many personal things). How would one stay unemtional about this type of thing? It’s easy for you because you are, as you stated, neutral, on the outside, and don’t know him or anyone close to him very well, it seems. If you did, you would understand.
What you see on http://www.artoflivingfree.blogspot.com, aside from the few crackpot comments that come up on any blogspot, is verifiable by the very people posting! No, nobody is probably going to come forward and try to fight such a formidable army such as AOL. And many of us are still traumatized from our various levels of abuse and threats given (yes, by the ‘Guru’ himself). Unlike what he says publically, he does not forgive people. He is a frightened, nasty little man when he thinks that someone knows too much and could speak out. He then goes on a campaign to strike as much fear as possible into them. Some of us are afraid of Tantra. Others are afraid of all the lies that he tells (through others, of course). The people posting here all know of many people whom he tried to ruin the very reputation of not only the person, but their entire family! It’s impossible for you to understand what some have had to endure, leaving AOL. If he didn’t care if you left (if you did leave at all), then you don’t know. Because he would have just forgotten about you. If you didnt’ know anything damning about him or his close associates, then you are safe. He won’t care. But you clearly do not fall into that category.
People reading this and the other blogspot at least can be warned of the dangers and insincerity of this man. Taking him down with the money trail is the only way. That will be difficult because of the rampant corruption and bribery. But it’s possible.
I for one do not wish to see anyone hurt or humiliated. I just want them to stop hurting and enabling the destruction of others’ lives. There are plenty of places to go to learn meditation, breathing, etc. There are plenty of places to go and sit in a nice environment where there are trees and flowers and contemplate the Truth. Bangalore does not need SSRS to grow and grow and grow for the human race to evolve or find spirituality.
All this while we thought RS was a genius who put together a great course – but it turns out he is a copycat who plagiarized from other sources. This needs to be brought out.
Do you have any references regarding the EST techniques/processes you say AOL copied. That would be solid proof which people won’t be able to deny.
not just AOL, even jaggi vasudev of isha in the basic Inner engineering program uses the same aphorisms, accept people and situations, take responsibility, live in the present moment. birds of the same feather huh ? Appears jaggi vasudev was a protege of the very same Rishi Prabhakar.
Cheated by AOL
“Initially they agreed for our quotation and i supplied the equipment to them. But when it came to payment they started the story that AOL is a charitable organization. When i persissted on payment and one day even lost temper i was told I am stressed should attend the basic course and so on. ”
This is a classic mind control technique used by conmen, politicians and cults like AOL. They make you feel that you are the problem and create guilt. In your case your are legitimately entitled to the payment. But they bring in your disturbed mental state, which incidentally has been created by them to cheat you.
Ravishankar’s old buddy and now enemy and competitor guru Rishi prabhakar is in trouble with is own young wife accussing him of running a sex racket:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/105952/India/wife-accuses-godman-of-running-sex-racket.html
Rishi prabhakar at the age of 55 had trapped this girl thirty years younger to him and married her. The marriage in a way was a downfall of his spiritual career.
Can anyone re upload the files? They have been deleted and I can’t find them anywhere on the net!
I would also like to download the file.. Please, can anyone reupload?
Please?
From another thread:
I have removed the link just posted here for this reason.
If you want something almost identical, try the following:
http://eiriu-eolas.org/online-version/
I’m glad to find your site as I’ve experienced a lot of troubles and confusions over art of living. I’d like to suggest you appeal to the CIA. Check online as they have an online comment form. Appeal to them that this big org is trying to have your site taken down and that free-speech is a value and spreading the truth is important. They are there to gather information for USA intelligence. Art of Living, Art of Living, and all their activities are of interest. The guy has been invited to sit in on USA senate hearings. The government needs to have this kind of material brought totheir attention. Thanks.
I have taken several courses with AOL, but I’m not an AOL teacher nor I do belong to the organization.
I found these posts interesting, funny, and worrying at the same time.
Why do you complain and want to resort to CIA of all things, when what you are trying to do is to steal their material? You are the one in the wrong there.
Why do you want to have AOL material, the tape, first of all, when you complain of it to be a scandal?
I never understood Guruji to have said he invented all these stuff: it has being going on for at least 5000 years, and Guruji always says that. Every Guru adapts the knowledge to the current times.
All those claims that you expect something coming directly from the tape are simply ridiculous: it is clear that you are still very far from understanding what is going on, you get a very superficial understanding and extrapolate it and pretend you understand how it is, and then complain if it doesn’t. You should go back and try to learn better, from other sources if you don’t trust Guruji. There are plenty of opportunities around. And there are many teachers that don’t understand themselves. So, go and find your own teacher.
It’s a long road.
Good luck.
@Anna – please see General Response to AoL Extremists on this blog where your questions are answered in some detail.
@ Anna – How could you have taken several courses in AOL and not be aware of Guru’s grace, Instrument of divine , Sudarshan kriya, the tape….? What more is needed to be a part of the organisation? Being a teacher is not a prerequisite.
@ Blossom
“@ Anna – How could you have taken several courses in AOL and not be aware of Guru’s grace?”
If you cannot get it by yourself, I’m not here to explain it.
@Anna:
You have actually asked only one question by rewording it a few times i.e. why do people on this blog want to steal AOL material?
I am not sure from where you got this impression. To me it seems that people here are more interested in exposing the fraud that is being committed in the name of SK and other practices rather than the stealing the practices themselves.
BTW, for anyone interested in stealing AOL material the links are spread over the cyberspace everywhere.
@ the Doctor
are you classifying me an AOL extremist? For what? This answer alone tells me a lot about your approach.
@Prakash
if this blog were to expose the fraud, they should do a better job.
I read several posts in this blog. I haven’t found anything convincing.
I see titles as “The secrets … of AOL”, where obviously you are trying to spread knowledge not about the frauds, but about AOL’s techniques.
Someone proposed to have CIA intervene: that shows luck of knowledge about the mission of CIA. Are you seriously talking about fraud? Make a claim with FBI, BBB.
Throwing the stone and then hiding the hand is not the best method to accuse someone. If you have real claims, either expose them clearly, with evidence, or better bring them in court. Saying that you are afraid of the consequences seems more a way to hide the lack of evidence.
As I said in my first post, I do not belong to AOL. I was sincerely trying to understand your position and to see what are your evidence for believing that AOL is a scam.
I don’t see a serious way of approaching the discussion.
I see very immature ways of reasoning and a lack of critical thinking.
Accusing someone of being an AOL extremist for an innocent post is not a way of seriously discuss things.
I am a scientist and I’m really interested in knowing more, both about AOL, but also about the knowledge that AOL is teaching. It lead me to read the Yoga Sutra of Patanjali, written few thousand of years ago. It lead me to read and listen to podcasts from many other people, yoga teachers, mediators, mystics from several traditions, including the Buddhist tradition, the catholic and other.
Is the knowledge that SSRS is giving a fraud? No.
Is the organization a fraud? I haven’t see any evidence yet, and this blog is not doing a god job in showing it.
Do you really think it is a fraud? Make a better job in showing it, because this blog is not. I will listen, but I will keep my critical thinking ability open.
Haven’t found anything convincing? lol, then please go re-read this entire blog and this blog: http://artoflivingfree.blogspot.com
Then, we can start taking you seriously.
And quit acting like you’re not involved in AOL. You wouldn’t even be here if you weren’t, and no one randomly decides to defend an organization for no reason. Do you really think we’re that stupid? 😉
but I will keep my critical thinking ability open.
Yes, do that in all matters, especially regarding any claims made by AoL. Then, you don’t need some blog like this. This blog is just telling you what some people experienced in AoL. Afaik, this blog is not there to “prove” anything to anybody…
@Anna:
“if this blog were to expose the fraud, they should do a better job.
I read several posts in this blog. I haven’t found anything convincing.”
Its a free world, Anna. It seems you are not satisfied with the quality of articles on this blog. Fine. No one is forcing you to spend your time and energies on this blog. Neither has anyone asked your advice on how to improve the quality standards. Feel free to leave this blog and spend your time on the blogs that meet your quality standards.
“As I said in my first post, I do not belong to AOL.”
tch.. tch.. tch..
Ever wondered why hard core AOL-ers can’t even start their first sentence without resorting to lies?
@Observer Jr.
I went to the blog you talked about.
I read a couple of long posts. No evidence yet. Just someone rambling about his experience, without factual details, all at the levels of rumors.
Can you point me to some posts more precise? (<— you see, I'm asking for info)
Again, I'm not part of AOL.
It doesn't take a genius to see that I haven't defended AOL at all.
I just made observations about what is written in this post. Period.
As I said, I'm just interested in learning.
If you cannot get past this, I'm sorry, I will not waste more of my time with this blog.
Alright Anna (Harshy?),
Why don’t you go read the one titled “Heart problems caused by Sudarshan Kriya.” That’s a good place to start. Or another good one is “Is Sudarshan Kriya safe?”
“I read a couple of long posts. No evidence yet. Just someone rambling about his experience…”
That’s one problem. You need to read more than a couple. “Just someone rambling…” indicates you are upset about this blog and just want to insult those you disagree with. Lastly, while there is no pure “proof” on this blog, there is plenty of evidence. Look up the word if you don’t know what evidence means. I’m surprised you want proof considering much of your faith in your master relies nothing on proof.
“It doesn’t take a genius to see that I haven’t defended AOL at all.”
Why are you getting all upset about it then? Why do you have interest in disproving the claims of this blog? Mmm? 😉
We know you’ll stick around. This blog has made you take your first step towards recovery. 🙂
@Observer Jr and other fools on this blog
Rest assured that I do not post from any other alias on this blog. Ideally I would like to, because that would mean more entertainment but your stalking doctor keeps an eye on who posts from which IP so technically I cant do that.
If you have any tips on how to hide my IP or post from proxy please let me know. Just be kind to me though , I am not a computer guy.
Harshy/Fred/Anna? –
You expect us to take you seriously after all the lies and silly comments you make? While I can’t prove it (and honestly, I don’t care) my experience that I trust tells me you have multiple aliases. It wouldn’t be very hard for anyone to hide behind a proxy server and pretend they are Anna or Freddy, etc.
@Observer Jr
Harshy???
I stumbled upon this blog yesterday for the first time. I searched something about Kriya and this was the first hit on Google.
Since I was curious, I read it, even if what I was looking for was different.
I was puzzled by the first few lines, and I wanted to see what was behind it.
I’ll guide you through my own reasoning.
I read:
” I just sat down to do Kriya to the MP3 and guess what? It actually had exactly the same effect as going to do Long Kriya in the group!!”
My first question was: What was this guy experiencing? What effect is he talking about?
Then I read:
“I subsequently found out that in actual fact, a qualified teacher is one who has been “prepared” in such a way that they become an “instrument of the divine”, and that during the Long Kriya session it is actually the Grace of the Guru which flows through the teacher. The tape really has very little to do with it.”
At this point I laugh and I thought that either the poster is ignorant, or he has an agenda in mind. “Instrument of the divine”, “The grace of the Guru”.
I don’t believe in any of these, but I will laugh at someone who believes this and then complains of being cheated. Well, I could also have compassion instead of laughing.
What I do believe in is that people have a different level of preparation, of maturity, of intellectual capacity. Teachers use different methods to explain the same topic to different level of people. In every field, in physics, medicine, spiritual topic and so on. Teachers use some metaphors for children, and others for college graduates.
The words above, “instrument of the divine” and such, are metaphors for people who have a low intellectual ability. For other people there are different approaches. And it could also be that the teacher himself is not a good teacher and he is not ready to teach.
Saying that, what I wanted to know from these blogs is:
Is there really a scam behind AOL or are these posts written by someone who has a limited ability to understand these things?
All the arguments that I read here that supposedly prove a scam, to me look like arguments from people with a low intellectual ability, or from someone who as a plan in mind that is beneficial to their own business.
What I find more striking are the expectations. It looks like people expect some kind of miracle or some kind of metaphysical power, and then they complain that what they were expecting didn’t happen. Here I see the fault in people having the wrong expectations.
I will read the last two blogs you pointed out. But I still have to see a clear description of why AOL is a scam. It is difficult to distinguish between what is rumors, ignorance of the poster, wrong expectations or real scam. And one person is not supposed to have to read 100 pages to see if there is a scam or what.
When you do submit a claim to BBB, you have a limited space, let’s say 10 lines, and you clearly have to state the scam. And there are guidelines in writing them.
Can someone write those? Clearly and synthetically? Without rumors?
As I said, I will read those new other posts you pointed me to. But I’m starting to be skeptical of these blogs.
Now you are pointing me toward the physical safety of Sudarshana Kriya. What does it has to do with AOL being a scam or not? I will read it but …
To clarify all these issues, I think it will easier to start step by step.
1-What are (were) your expectations from AOL?
2-What do (did) you expect from Sudarshana Kriya?
If you are an honest person seeking information and not an AOL troll, then I apologize for my previous comments. However, you continue to make some very strange assumptions.
“All the arguments that I read here that supposedly prove a scam, to me look like arguments from people with a low intellectual ability, or from someone who as a plan in mind that is beneficial to their own business.”
Well, you may have just insulted the dozens of people who have spoken about their experiences of abuse in AOL. Low intellectual ability? lol
You need to step back a moment and ask yourself: “What benefit would we gain by claiming AOL is a cult?” You’ll hopefully realize that there is nothing to gain in the material sense. No one is making any money by claiming AOL is a scam. The purpose this blog serves is to reach out and help offer an honest critique of AOL that you won’t find on many sites on the internet.
“But I still have to see a clear description of why AOL is a scam. It is difficult to distinguish between what is rumors, ignorance of the poster, wrong expectations or real scam. And one person is not supposed to have to read 100 pages to see if there is a scam or what.”
First off, not everyone here is claiming it’s a scam. That’s too black and white of a word to summarize all of AOL. However, AOL does make a lot of large claims about their Guru and their courses (without proper scientific research to back it up). It’s well documented in books that AOL claims SSRS can heal people and is an enlightened being. AOL teachers have told me personally that the kriya tape is more than just a tape, and that we are “receiving grace” from the tape. AOL has claimed kriya helps HIV victims, PTS syndrome and many other health claims. They also claim kriya increases your energy and makes you feel healthier. This isn’t a “rumour,” it’s common knowledge for anyone who’s done AOL courses (I did them almost a decade).
Lastly, our problems with AOL are not just rumors. Go read the well publicized attack from AOL teacher Swami Sadhyojatha: http://www.kashikar.net/2010/08/the-truth-about-the-negative-blogs-%E2%80%93-by-swami-sadhyojathah/ Is this attack on a woman something you would call acceptable from a “spiritual organization”?
Also, consider this: AOL is trying to sue this blog, even though there is nothing copyrighted on here anymore. This means they are suing because they don’t like the criticism of the organization. This isn’t a rumour, but a fact. I’m curious to what you think of an organization that tries to censor free speech.
Now, to answer your questions:
1-What are (were) your expectations from AOL?
I expected it to be an honest non-profit spiritual organization. There are countless examples of persons who have been on the inside who have reported that this organization is not non-profit. Also, look at the fact that they have been increasing the cost of courses every year since 2003.
2-What do (did) you expect from Sudarshana Kriya?
I expected my health to improve. Why? Because I was told that it would. Not only by my teachers in AOL, but by books I had purchased from the organization. What happened? The opposite. My health became worse over time and it went back to normal once I stopped practicing kriya. You can read similar stories all over this blog.
ha ha ha
I read those long blog, “Heart problems caused by Sudarshan Kriya.”
Long, long, unnecessary long.
I have to admit, I like Harshal answers.
I’m sorry guys, I’m out of here 🙂
I’ll look for answers in more apt places.
lol, I realize I just wasted time replying to another AOL troll.
We know you’ll stick around here, posting under other names. 😉
Yes, but you did such a great job, and what’s more you saved me the time and effort I was going to waste in drafting a similar response.
Thanks 😉
Anna –
You say you are a spiritual person, yet you cannot be honest about such a simple thing like your affiliation with AOL on an anonymous message board ?
Bye! don’t forget to take your critical thinking with you and always use it at least for all matters regarding AoL.
I encourage everyone who is looking to have info about AOL from this blog to write and ask.
Ask for evidence that will make you understand without doubt if AOL is a scam or not.
Don’t settle for “many people says”, or “the high price is evidence of scam”, or “a spiritual person is not suppose to behave like that”.
You will be accused of being dishonest, of being part of AOL, even if you are sincerely looking for info and you do not belong to AOL.
Just try.
And just to be sure: there is a huge difference between a scam and a cult.
Freedom of speech doesn’t imply freedom to steal and freedom to be defamatory.
Defense against a lawsuit is not to avoid a lawsuit, but to go in court and defend yourself there.
Spiritual persons don’t have to behave like the other would like to.
Oh, by the way, if by chance you ARE part of AOL and want to be freed by the paladins running this blog, tough luck. That is not the purpose of this blog.
Don’t settle for “many people says”, or “the high price is evidence of scam”, or “a spiritual person is not suppose to behave like that”.
How about – lack of any transparency in accounts, and RS’s family’s stake in many companies shows something fishy is going on.
Freedom of speech doesn’t imply freedom to steal and freedom to be defamatory.
Actually, it is AOL which has plagiarized techniques/processes from other organizations. See: Under number 29. https://aolfree.wordpress.com/the-prosecutor/
Oh, by the way, if by chance you ARE part of AOL and want to be freed by the paladins running this blog, tough luck.
True, only you can make the change in yourself. I do think that this blog does help in providing support. What this blog is not is another cult. If someone wants to leave AOL and find another community – this blog does not claim to be such a place. At most, it is a point in a journey beyond AOL.
Only AOL people think in such black and white terms where any critique of AOL is seen as defaming/hateful/betrayal/anti. I guess the only way to deal with criticism is to shoot the messenger.
“Ask for evidence that will make you understand without doubt if AOL is a scam or not.”
Yes. Ask them what happened to the money collected in “A dollar a day” program that was supposed to set up a trust for free education of poor children. Better still, ask them anything about where the money goes and see them squirming with embarrassed, angry and vague replies.
While you’re working on getting proofs, can you ask Ravi Shankar to publish proof about the advanced degree he got at at age of 17 as mentioned in some of his books and also on Wikipedia until recently. Now AOL has changed wikipedia to say he got BSc degree at the age of 21. The main AOL site still says he got 2 degrees at 17. He keeps lying about things that don’t even matter in his spirituality business. This should keep you busy for a while 🙂
I’ve posted this fact before: several classmates of Ravi Shankar said he dropped out of school when he was 17, and was a poor student. Ravi Shankar told me himself that he dropped out of school, didn’t like to study, and went off to be with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and never got his degree or returned to school. He was well past 21 when he said these things to me. So the question is: was he lying to me then or is he lying on his biographies now? Are others lying for him and he doesn’t know it (doubtful)? Are classmates from that time lying as well? What would be their motive. They hardly knew him, but know who he is now because he is famous (infamous in some circles).
Anna, if you want to find out if AOL is a cult or a scam, just try to print anything as challenging on one of their sites, and watch it not get printed there. There is no freedom at all in AOL and never will be. Ravi Shankar will not be challenged. He is a frightened little man who used to be a yogi and fell to the temptations of money, name, fame and other things (which will go unmentioned here). If you want a real flavor who this man is, what he is, get very close, stay very close, and watch. You’ll leave too. He is not the smiling, nice person he pretends to be.
” Ask them what happened to the money collected in “A dollar a day”
No, I ask you. What happened? You are the one making the accusation. And I will be curious to know it too.
“can you ask Ravi Shankar to publish proof about the advanced degree he got at at age of 17 ?”
Why don’t you ask him yourself? I never met Sri Sri. And I sincerely do not give a damn about his degree.
The knowledge that Sri Sri is providing for free through the videos and the newsletters is incomparable. I learnt a lot through the courses I took. The courses in which he is present are too expensive for me. I simply don’t go there. I don’t make a problem about that.
The CDs are way too expensive. I don’t buy them. I have the chance to watch them through friends. I haven’t yet. And if I will not be able, so what? Why do you make so much problems about that? Really, why?
“The courses in which he is present are too expensive for me. I simply don’t go there”
Exactly baby. You have seen too little of AOL and SSRS and you just don’t know what you’re talking about. So when people who have seen in and out the organization talk about it, keep quite; listen or not listen is your prerogative, but your comments here are worthless.
Welcome back troll. 😉 I guess you didn’t find your “information” you needed.
Anna,
The spiritual path is a long one….once you graduate from kindergarten, you might recognize the truth written here. Till then, ignorance is bliss – enjoy it while it lasts.
“No, I ask you. What happened? You are the one making the accusation. And I will be curious to know it too.”
Exactly. Nothing happened. All of a sudden the program was discontinued without informing what happened to the money collected.
Incidentally, you seem to have a very twisted sense of logic. People gave money for the program believing that a trust is going to be set up for educating poor children. Then all of a sudden the program and all its publicity vanishes into thin air without a trace. On probing it is told that the program was not successful and hence dropped. But no one is able to tell what happened to the money collected earlier. Despite all this as per your logic the onus of telling where the money went is on the people who gave money- not SSRS.
—-
***“can you ask Ravi Shankar to publish proof about the advanced degree he got at at age of 17 ?”***
“Why don’t you ask him yourself? I never met Sri Sri. And I sincerely do not give a damn about his degree.”
It is not about the degree. It is about lying and deceit. After all who cares if Ramakrishna or Ramana or Nisargdutta had any degree or not?
It is not people on this blog who are saying that he got his advanced degrees in physics and vedic literature at the age of 17. It is his organization which is claiming it.
Meeting Sri Sri is not that simple. You really have to be rich and famous if you want to meet or talk to him. Slight relaxation in this eligibility may be given if you are white skinned because it adds to PR points.
“Meeting Sri Sri is not that simple. You really have to be rich and famous if you want to meet or talk to him. Slight relaxation in this eligibility may be given if you are white skinned because it adds to PR points.”
Lie. I know many people who met him and talked to him, and they are neither rich or white.
“once you graduate from kindergarten”
Who told you what stage I’m in in my life? I don’t see any people with a minimum knowledge of spirituality on this blog. So what do you blather about?
“What happen to the money for $1 a day for children?
Nothing happened. All of a sudden the program was discontinued without informing what happened to the money collected.”
So, if nothing happened where is the problem?
You are making an accusation but you say that you don’t know.
“Incidentally, you seem to have a very twisted sense of logic.”
You probably are not able to straighten up your thoughts. You keep making accusation, and then you say that you don’t know what’s behind. Either you have facts, evidence that something is wrong, or simply shut up.
“Also, consider this: AOL is trying to sue this blog, even though there is nothing copyrighted on here anymore. ”
Lie. Another lie. There is still copyrighted material here. And besides that, to put it on internet on the first place is already worth pursuing a lawsuit.
You seem to have a twisted mind in believing that spiritual persons should avoid to defend themselves when accused.
The more this discussion is continuing, the more is evident that:
-this blog is full of lies
-posters here are trying to manipulate people into thinking that they have evidence of fraud or scams. They don’t.
-they play themselves as victims of cults just to defend their attacks and warrant themselves a free lawyer.
-They don’t have any evidence of frauds.
-they attack everyone here that asks to be more precise in their accusation and to provide facts,
-They obviously have no idea of what spirituality is.
I know many people involved in AOL. I heard many good things about AOL.
I heard also that there are rumors about AOL.
I found this blogs just by chance. I wanted to know what the rumors where and if there was something solid behind it.
I concluded that it is better to follow the advice of people who believe in AOL: “just don’t pay attention to people who put up those rumors.”
At the same time I compare knowledge from many disciplines, many people and many religious and spiritual persons. Up to know I consider the knowledge coming from Sri Sri one of the most valuable. No scam or cult leader could come up with this profound knowledge.
So goodbye posters, and keep wasting your time spreading hate and disinformation.
And keep insulting people who happen to disagree with you.
That tells much more about your self and your stage in life than anything else.
Hi Anna. You’re well on your way to recovery. Your doubt in AOL is keeping you on this blog. 😉 See you again soon. 🙂
At the very least, Anna, you need to move beyond trying to kill the messenger, and attempt to listen to the message instead. Good bye (once again)!
Not only is she a Kindergartener in the spiritual field, but her logic is like that of an actual Kindergartner, just like those many brainwashed soles in AOL. But of course Anna is not part of Art of Living, she is just an outsider who finds Sri Sri’s “knowledge” profound and most valuable. Good for you, Anna.
Who told you what stage I’m in in my life?
You are correct – I don’t know you personally, and neither it is my job to go around judging people.
if it is any recompense – we were all once in Kindergarten, everyone goes through that phase. They only way you know you are no longer there is when you move beyond. When you look back, you will realize.
Sometimes these ugly truths are painful, but they help you grow.
“and neither it is my job to go around judging people”
LOL!
@Peaceful Warrior
“we were all once in Kindergarten, everyone goes through that phase. They only way you know you are no longer there is when you move beyond. When you look back, you will realize.”
So, where did you move to? Which spiritual tradition are you following?
That is probably a rhetorical question- but I’ll still answer it.
It is not as much about following another tradition or knowledge – although I do find many other traditions are much more rigorous in their approach, and prepare you better for the trials of the real world.
Do an exercise for – for six months try to live away from AOL. No satsangs, no sudarshan kriya, no applying knowledge points. Just observe yourself and be yourself, and act from consciousness – instead of ego. If you can live a happy contented life, then you would have understood what the knowledge really means.
If on the other hand, you feel that you need AOL or to be part of a satsang group to belong somewhere, or to be fulfilled, you have a lot to learn. When you try to create your own world using values that you choose – then you really learn. Following an organization, society, or a teacher is way easier – there is no need to think, or choose – but that makes you comatose, not spiritual.
“If on the other hand, you feel that you need AOL or to be part of a satsang group to belong somewhere, or to be fulfilled, you have a lot to learn”
I thought , it was not your job to be judgemental? Your truth , whatever you have stumbled upon is universal? I think you are a bigger idiot than those who you concur idiotic.
Fulfilment is not a static constant , nor is there a linear adapting trend to it. Meaning, you do not go from lower fulfilment to higher fulfilment , there is nothing to learn. You just go from one fulfilment to other fulfilment. You will not get this, as you are a stupid all-knower.
Way to twist the meaning of my words. Let me clarify – if you need to be part of a spiritual group to feel complete – then that is a form of dependence. It makes you a vulnerable to propaganda and a football of other’s (particularly SSRS) opinions. It’s best to learn to stand on your own feet.
This not rocket science – it’s is plain common sense – something you forget when your judgement is clouded by AOL brainwashing.
PW — why do you keep answering this moron? He’s just baiting you, and trying to draw the attention away from the real subject. You let him make it about you instead of his crooked, bent Guru, Master of Masters, Sri Sri Sri 1008 Sri The Illuminated Boss of All, Ravi Shankar. Why not ignore his dumb comments? He thinks he’s enlightened, and everyone else is not. His Guru has let him think this and ordered him to divert the conversation to how foolish anyone posting here is. You let him do this. Why fall for it?
I’m always amazed how you can respond so kindly and calmly to all the trolls like Harshy. I don’t know how you do it. Thanks for being compassionate to these souls like Harshy and Anna who are in deep suffering.
Where do you think he gets the “Peaceful” in his name from?
😉
Thanks Doctor and Jr.,
It’s not compassion – it’s just that one has to respond to criticism if one is giving it out.
“You will not get this, as you are a stupid all-knower.”
On the contrary – I’m much more open minded. You are steeped in AOL dogma, and I’m telling him that there is an entire universe that you discover when you move away from the dogma, and see life with your own eyes.
@ Peaceful Warrior
“That is probably a rhetorical question- but I’ll still answer it.”
It was not. I’m trying to understand your position.
“It is not as much about following another tradition or knowledge – although I do find many other traditions are much more rigorous in their approach, and prepare you better for the trials of the real world.”
How do they do it more rigorously? How are they different?
“Do an exercise for – for six months try to live away from AOL. No satsangs, no sudarshan kriya, no applying knowledge points. Just observe yourself and be yourself, and act from consciousness – instead of ego. If you can live a happy contented life, then you would have understood what the knowledge really means.”
-do not practice
-act out of consciousness
-live happy
…
mmmmh
I disagree with all points.
The human body and the mind needs certain practices.
That’s the most valuable point I learnt.
You don’t need Kriya, but you need to substitute it with something equivalent.
And you do need meditation, whatever form you decide to follow.
Acting out of consciousness is possible only if your body and mind are in the condition to do that. You can avoid to steal if you are rich, but if you are starving, acting out of consciousness is difficult. Practice helps to bring body and mind to a certain status.
It doesn’t matter if you follow AOL practices or others, but to follow some practices is important.
You are reducing everything to a mental act. And you forget that the mind is a small part of the body. You forget the body and its own mind.
Satsang: there is a reasons for that, as there is a reason for groups of people spending time together. And this is part of many traditions, spiritual, religious, and even secular.
“If on the other hand, you feel that you need AOL or to be part of a satsang group to belong somewhere, or to be fulfilled, you have a lot to learn. When you try to create your own world using values that you choose – then you really learn. Following an organization, society, or a teacher is way easier – there is no need to think, or choose – but that makes you comatose, not spiritual.”
The world is one, and you belong to that like everyone else. Having mind trips doesn’t help you. And learning this world’s rules is important.
But your answer gave me the answer I was suspecting. You are not reacting to one guru, but to all gurus or religions.
For you it is all a matter of independence vs the need to belong somewhere.
OMG, that’s the obsessions of Americans. Both of them.
Either way you are still dependent. The need to feel independent is at the same level of the need to feel belonging. Both are needs.
No, there are different ways to follow a spiritual path. You have been talking of the most basic one, following the practices of an organizations without understanding them and making them your own. That is wrong. And that way is not spiritual.
Without offence, I really think you don’t get yet what is spiritual.
The issue is not to follow the practices or not, but to understand the reasons why it is important to follow them. I was in a more advanced stage than you are now 25 years ago. Without a special guru. Sri Sri added so many little pieces of the puzzle. His knowledge is really deep.
Not all people understand that with the reason, some they just feel it. For people who cannot feel it and need reasons, a more serious approach is necessary.
No, you are not out of kindergarten yet. I’m sorry.
How do they do it more rigorously? How are they different?
Remember the niyamas and discipline of spiritual path ? They are rigorous in the sense that they are stricter about it. Also more rigorous in approach to studying scriptures. It’s not just listening to commetrary once or twice, but going into depth of each sutra/shloka, again and again, till it’s part of your experience. In AOL the focus is on organizing courses and spreading knowledge, as opposed to living deeply. Take the life of any saint – Ramakrishna Paramhamsa for example, and compare and contrast with SSRS. Their focus was on living with depth – not to organize events and courses for them – or for that matter rituals and pujas.
And you do need meditation, whatever form you decide to follow.
Meditation is better than kriya for sure. Kriya is mechanical process – meditation is much more deeper. But still, you do remember the sutra from ashtavakra gita where it is mentioned that at a certain stage, meditation becomes the bondage. You think that meditation is to sit quitely and chant a mantra – it is not. It is being a witness to all that is happening – and you are that 24×7. Not just certain time of the day where you sit and chant – though these techniques do have value initially.
See for example what ramana says about it:
http://bhagavan-ramana.org/meditationandconcentration.html
Satsang: there is a reasons for that, as there is a reason for groups of people spending time together. And this is part of many traditions, spiritual, religious, and even secular.
The company you keep can be beneficial – but it can also hold you back. By satsang – I specifically meant AOL satsang – which is not just about singing, chanting and knowledge – but full of subliminal marketing.
And learning this world’s rules is important.
No doubt- but are you in this world to learn society’s rules ? To follow those rules and have a good time, within what is permitted ? Don’t you think the aim of any sadhna is to connect you with consciousness, live naturally – and mould your world according to your insights ?
For you it is all a matter of independence vs the need to belong somewhere.
OMG, that’s the obsessions of Americans. Both of them.
It is the obsession of everyone on the spiritual path. What question does Janak ask ashtavakra – How is freedom to be attained ? How to acquire knowledge? How to gain dispassion ?
Independence and need to belong are not mutually exclusive. In fact independence leads to healthier relationships, because people then are not needy and more giving.
Without a special guru. Sri Sri added so many little pieces of the puzzle. His knowledge is really deep.
I’ve not criticized the knowledge and discourses – only his actions, and the way the organization functions. They are not congruent with the knowledge he teaches.
No, you are not out of kindergarten yet. I’m sorry.
Thanks for reminding me 🙂 – of course spirituality is a very vast and deep subject, and there is so much to learn. But personally speaking, i have grown much more since I stopped volunteering for AOL. It is finally a school. At some point you have to graduate and live your life. Only then what you learnt in school makes sense, and is useful.
Thought you left Anna, dear….Just you just can’t stay away. 🙂
She’s not going anywhere – she doubts AOL. That is why she is here. She is in the process of leaving AOL. 🙂
I know you miss me. I’m busy right now, but don’t worry, I will answer.
Uh, for your info, Anna, Sri Sri 1008 Sri Master of Masters, Lord of the Universe (he wishes) to Be Bowed to at all Times (he wishes) Ravi Shankar) told me himself that all his followers are “in kindergarten”. He said it with a kind of disgust, like he was sick of leading them around. So you too, Anna, according to your own beloved master.
Sri Sri added so many little pieces of the puzzle. His knowledge is really deep.
Even if he does have “deep knowledge” (really – “deep” knowledge? but very less originality, it seems like..), that does not make him any less narcissistic or manipulative. Aol does not automatically become less cult-like either.
Interesting that now on wikipedia, it uses the book The Way of Grace as a credible source for referencing a doctor on the effects of kriya. (This is under the SSRS article). Does anyone know anything about this doctor Bharti Verma, M.D. who states “Sudarshan Kriya is not hyperventilation…. The process is unlike hyperventilation and seems much more complex in its nature. A person hyperventilating will often experience lightheadedness, blurred vision, muscle spasms of hands and feet, a general feeling of being unwell, fainting and loss of consciousness. In contrast, course participants learning Sudarshan Kriya report a state of deep relaxation while feeling rejuvenated and re-energized. Clearly the experiences of persons practicing Sudarshan Kriya are exactly the opposite of what a hyperventilating exercise would be expected to produce.”
Is she a teacher in AOL?
Yes.She is an AOL teacher in Canada. And that disqualifies whatever she is saying. Her degrees are fake, its all a scam. and so you can move on now.
Dear harshy,
What a simple AOL way of looking at things.
You would need to see Dr. Bharti Verma in action around Ravi Shankar to understand just how valuable any ‘research’ or anything else scientific she might claim, could be. Because she is not a public figure like Ravi Shankar, really, and I don’t wish to be sued for slander, by Dr. Verma, I will not say any more except — go see her around “Sri Sri” for yourself, over, say, a Guru Purnima course or something, and judge her abilities for yourself. Now THAT, is entertainment! LOL Guru Kripa Karoooooooooo Guru Kripa Karoooooooo LOL! What does anyone on this forum think about someone who openly proclaims they are a reincarnation of Radha Herself, and will return “again and again” to serve Krishna? Of course, now I must be on another subject entirely, and not speaking of the good Doctor V. LOL!!!!!!!! Guru Kripa Karoooooooo Guru Kripa Karoooooo.
Just a quick comment.
In two hospitals in Milan, Italy, two of the best hospitals of the city,
Sudarshana Kriya is offered as a cure to patients as an alternative to anti depressive medication.
The national Health service pays for the courses. Doctors of the hospital are teaching it to the patients and monitoring them. And all of this was possible because they could prove the benefits, otherwise the hospital would not offered it and the Health service would not pay for it.
Who are running these hospitals, can’t be AOL as they only believe in photo-ops of charity, never do such a thing. Must be some brainwashed aolite must be running these hospitals and duping the Italian Govt. Carry on the good work of your master, by duping rest of the world.
Any idea how much AOL will charge GOD for teaching Sudarshan Kriya to Him?
http://iahv-italia.org/v3/ (use google translate)
There is the name of the two hospitals and contact info for the doctors managing the program, if you want to write them and enlighten them.
Here the results of the ongoing study they are doing with their patients:
http://iahv-italia.org/v3/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61&Itemid=1
Hospitals are far more careful in using SK to heal than AOL teachers. Trained doctors carefully monitor your health, and can stop the practice if it is causing harmful effects. They don’t have the attitude that the technique works always – and side effects are due to bad karma coming out.
Secondly, long term effects of kriya on normal people are unknown. Just because it works as medicine does not necessarily mean one can use it as food. Personally, it helped me initially, but over long term my body started to reject it. It just may have been my bad karma ;).
“Hospitals are far more careful in using SK to heal than AOL teachers. Trained doctors carefully monitor your health, and can stop the practice if it is causing harmful effects. They don’t have the attitude that the technique works always – and side effects are due to bad karma coming out.”
Not really, if doctors happen to be trained AOL teachers, then it would depend on how deeply they are involved in AOL. More they are involved in AOL, less likely they are going to be logical and will attribute any bad effect of sudarshan kriya to Bad Karma. The way Dr. Verma is described in an earlier comment just reinforces my belief.
@Doubt
Most doctors act like professionals – if only because they are doing their jobs, and there are malpractice suits to contend with in case things go wrong.
But you do have a point – apparently our friend Harshal also has a medical degree – if it’s someone like him administering treatment, I would be wary. I want my doctors to take care of my health, not serve a guru. They can do that at their personal time.
“Secondly, long term effects of kriya on normal people are unknown.”
That’s the same for every medicine produced by the Drug industry. No medicine is tested for more than 2 months. Clinical trials are extremely expensive and no study goes beyond two month, even if some drugs are prescribed for years or a lifetime.
But the doctors still prescribe those medicine.
But with medicines, once your symptoms disappear, you stop taking them. You are not supposed to depend on them. Nor are drugs prescribed to healthy individuals who don’t need it.
Many medicine are prescribed for a lifetime: cardioaspirin, high pressure pills, pills for diabetes, medicine for depression or bipolar disorders, for arthritis and so on . And some are taken by many for a lifetime, such as sleeping pills.
So if i don’t have any problems in my life and it is running smoothly I don’t need to do sudarshan kriya – right ? It’s not like i’m brushing my teeth.
.
So many people claim marijuana is also a natural substance and an elixir for so many things. They even use it in some therapies. Does not mean it is safe. User takes it at his own risk.
Also,with any drug, there is a lot of research on how they work. What pathways they target etc. These things are always under study. With SK – people don’t know how it works – if at all.
@ Anna,
IAHV is another organisation headed by HHSSRS. Their (IAHV and Aol and the websites you have referred are IAHV, Italy’s website)websites claim almost any thing, including that HHSSRS is many times nobel prize finalist, which is an obvious lie. So these sources can hardly be treated as independent. The way AOL popularises shady research as scientific. Every such claim will have to be taken with a pinch of salt.
People!
In this video at 1min – 20sec, SSRS claims the Sudarshan Kriya can change DNA !
Can we subject this assertion to medical tests ?
Would anyone care to remember what other things the Italian government has sponsored, endorsed, stood behind? Mussolini, for example? Just because a hospital, or government, or any other perceived authority endorses something doesn’t make it good. Hospitals, governments, are all composed of human beings who are quite capable of making misjudgments and mistakes. Such appears to be the case in regards to this (badly) mislead Italian hospital. They will learn over time that SK can cause their patients permanent damage in many cases, and that they become more depressed. Unless of course, Ravi Shankar’s teachers are/were just crazy and depressed to begin with? They certainly were very unhappy after practicing SK for several years. And their behavior deteriorated over time. Then they discovered some not very clever or convincing ways to hide those things, including saying they were “just so sensitive, from being so evolved…” blah blah blah. So that would entitle a senior teacher to childish outbursts of temper over little things, abusive language, screaming and crying. In my opinion, those things were the direct result of association with Ravi Shankar and doing the Sudharshan Kriya for awhile.
Italy has the second best Health system in the world, behind France.
And those hospitals are studying the effects of SK on patients. They published their data after 6 months and two years.
And they are not alone. A Hospital in Oslo, Sweden is doing the same. Others in Germany too.
Let me see you scientific evidence of the damage or inefficiency of SK.
Harshy –
https://aolfree.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/general-response-to-aol-extremists-on-this-blog/
@Jr.
your mind seems a little bit slow.
Harshy!=Anna
AND
Anna is not an AOL.
Hi
DNA means Daily News and Analysis here. Hahahaha
Actually genes are switched on and off all the time, and we are constantly evolving. But it is only a hypothesis with no medical evidence to support the claim.
It’s not that simple – Maharishi was able to convince some very good scientists about yogic flying – with some B.S like when you are in unified field, gravity loses it’s power over you. Of course till date there is not a shred of data to prove any of it, or even theoretical justification of how it might be happening. Big claims like this should always be treated with skepticism.
Well this instance the “know-everything” RaviRavi has no clue “what DNA means”, “Can SK change DNA?”. He simply answered “YES”, “YES” and moved on, probably embarrassing for him to ask someone what is DNA? For other questions when he understood he seemed to give more elaborate answers. A Spiritual guru is not expected to know scientific terms such as DNA and so on, issue is not that, Issue is his big ego can’t accept what he doesn’t know and ask for it when he doesn’t know in front of large gatherings.
Change DNA to what? Maybe that explains the loss of critical thinking in the “followers” of AoL. Their DNA has been changed to the DNA of sheep.
While the scientists are trying to find out how meditation affects DNA. The great guru Nithyananda Paramahamsa has already scientifically proved that his very presence can change DNA.
“But it is only a hypothesis with no medical evidence to support the claim”
Someone has pointed out that you have serious flaws in logic. I think they are wrong. You are just a lunatic idiot.
Few years ago a study at mass general hospital showed how genes are upregulated and downregulated by meditation. Use pubmed/google to find it. And no, it was not done by anyone in AOL or TM.
Meditation and SK are not the same. Also if it was a scientist who had done this research making such claims, I would be more inclined to accept it. But RS is not a scientist, nor does he know anything about genetics but yet makes these claims any way – hence I take it with a grain of salt when coming from him.
Anna,
In actual fact you’ve brought nothing new to the table that we haven’t seen dozens of times previously. What you have done, however, is once again demonstrated that you’ve completely missed the point of what we’re saying about Sudarshan Kriya across these blogs.
The majority of criticisms are detailed in the following post, and to date not one of them has been successfully challenged by anyone:
https://aolfree.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/is-sudarshan-kriya-safe/
If you can challenge these things, I would certainly be prepared to listen. However you persist in skirting around all the issues highlighted in the above post, which really just shows that you either haven’t understood them or you are purposefully choosing to avoid answering them and attempting to distract people from them instead.
If you read the following, you will see what Dr. Janakiramaiah, who Art of Living often quote as having done research into the benefits of SK has to say about it:
https://aolfree.wordpress.com/2011/05/08/refuting-scientific-research-on-sudarshan-kriya/
Note in particular what he says about those who practice SK “essentially […] hyperventilating”.
So who exactly are we to believe?
To those of you who have had bad experiences from and who have since stopped practicing SK, based on the information Anna has provided above, will you now reconsider your decision to terminate the practice? Will you ignore your bad experiences, ignore what your body told you, ignore any medical advice your doctor might have given you, and recommence your practice?
@The Doctor
You keep missing my point, or you mislead on purpose.
I did not try to bring any evidence to the table.
I just did a quick remark to a series of post that started with the one made by Permalink.
“Jr. PERMALINK
May 27, 2011 4:21 am
Interesting that now on wikipedia, it uses the book The Way of Grace as a credible source for referencing a doctor on the effects of kriya. ….”
That post was totally out of place in this blog. It belongs to the other blog. And it was not related to the previous posts.
If you are honest in wanting to moderate this discussion, you should comment on that post and tell the author to bring that kind of discussion on the blog related to the effects of Kriya.
If you people start saying that there are not scientific studies, or that studies are made by unreliable AOL people, it is obvious that people will point out that it is not true.
Do a quick search on PubMed and you will try scientific papers.
My point, from the beginning, has being just one. I have being asking you guys to bring me evidence of the fact that AOL is a scam, like you claim you have being doing in these posts.
As far as for the effects of Kriya, I prefer to relay on the words of doctors or papers, not of you guy that are just able to bash or attack people.
And as I said, I’m a scientist, and I’m really interesting in knowing, and I’m not interested in rumors, in people bashing, or in sentence like “many people say” and all that.
And my interest, from this blog, is related to the scam.
But, as I said earlier, you still haven’t come out with anything reliable.
And every time I try to straighten up your bogus reasoning, you attack me saying that I’m another person, or an extremist, or an AOL person.
Oh, gosh, I really, really, really would like to see you all in front of a judge in court. Not for the judgement part or punishment or whatever, I just want you to be forced to bring up the evidence you have, in a simple and concrete way, and leave out all the bashing and crap and shoulder patting among you that you fill this blog with.
Interesting… looks like you’re looking for proof like a video movie showing how money is collected in courses (many times in cash) and sent to RS’s accounts in India or abroad and then you’d want to see bank statements and traces of how that money is spent (complete accounting of that money).
RS may be a scamster but he’s not stupid to leave this kind of proof for you.
From what I have seen, people on this blog are mainly sharing their experiences with AOL and many of them have shared positive and negative experiences. It’s up to you to decide whatever conclusion you want to draw from them. If you’re not convinced AOL is scam, go ahead and join them. These bloggers do not have any inclination/capacity to sue AOL.
The kind of black and white logic you’re using convinces me that you’re from AOL. AOL has already used this approach on this blog earlier. Mr Sumeru appeared on this blog as an independent observer and in heat of discussion revealed his true identity. So you have to use some new approach. Be more creative.
Harshy/Anna – No one is buying your bullshit “I’m not in AOL…” lol
No one wakes up and randomly decides to defend an organization they have nothing to do with.
No one cares to try to argue with you because we know you’re just another troll.
You won’t find your “info” here, so move along, mm? 😉
To the scientist,
Have you gone down the gauntlet of the AOL courses ending up doing TTC.
If not then you have no clue what is going on, if you did then you know that during TTC not much time is spend on where the technique comes from or what exactly happens. Lots of time is spend in teaching one to sign people up.
Not to mention the wide spread of knowledge maturity and life experience from one teacher to another. But this is the most brilliant part, it truly does not matter since we all get a tape and press play, sit back tel people to stay awake and hope for the Guru”s grace to kick in. Hahahahahaha
It would be interesting to see us all in front of a judge then the truth will be setlled once and for all. AlthoughIi do not think this will happen as Ravi in his old faternity saw the outcome.
http://trancenet.net/law/nj/nj1.shtml
Sorry Anna, but it is actually you who is completely missing the point and it is you who is trying to mislead people on purpose here. Your comments thus far are clear evidence of this.
You have asked many questions of us, and even made demands of us, and we have done our best to provide answers to what you have asked for. However you have completely ignored these and continue to ask the same questions again and make the same accusations against us. You have been nothing but crude and offensive in your comments since you came on this blog (for example calling some of the contributors “people with low intellectual ability”, and you certainly don’t come across as someone who is either neutral (don’t belong to Art of Living? You aren’t very convincing here) or spiritual for that matter.
I never actually said that you were an extremist, I specifically said that the answers to the questions you asked in your opening comment were on the link I provided (see my original response here). Yet you twisted my words and decided to make it sound like I called you an extremist, which says a lot about you as person. It’s only after noticing your behavoiur on this blog to date that it seems evident you are actually an extremist after all.
If you don’t like the things you are reading here, you should just stop reading and walk away. You even told us on numerous occasions that you are done with this blog and you are going elsewhere for answers. Yet here you are again? Why? For what purpose? You left, and you couldn’t find answers elsewhere so you came back here? This now shows great inconsistency and erraticness in your behaviour.
You seem to be hellbent on proving that we are somehow the bad guys here, to the point of accusing us of “stealing” Art of Living materials that were published on this blog. Even though the reasons for this have been given on numerous occasions, and even though the materials were all removed from the blog last year, you have tried to convince people there are still copyrighted materials here. See your comment here, where you have clearly stated “Lie. Another lie. There is still copyrighted material here.” This in itself is a complete lie on your part, as you know as well as anyone here that there is nothing copyrighted on this blog. If there is, please kindly point out where it is?
Come on Anna, seriously, who are you trying to fool here? You can continue with this little game of yours as long as you like, but as you’ve probably realized you’re going to find it very difficult to pull the wool over anyone’s eyes here.
If you want to stick around, please do, but you’re going to have a hard time convincing anyone of anything you are trying to argue as your statements are full of holes, lies and inconsistencies.
@ Anna: Dont waste your time with these buggers. They are not going to provide any evidence. These people can be classified into following types
1)Old farts like doctor: They have done nothing and achieved nothing in their life. At the fag end of their life they need to make there presence felt, somewhere. So they use blogs like these to grab some presence even though it is invisible. Actually this guy only has good experiences with AOL, and says that it is ‘not all bad’. However in the same breath he claims that it is a ‘dangerous cult’
2)idiots like Peaceful Warrior: They absolutely have no idea about what they are talking, however they make tall claims about anything and everything. His knowledge of medical research starts and ends with the term ‘double -blinding’. For example:Recently he claimed that there ‘upregulation and down regulation of genes is just a hypothesis’ he debunks all the scientific literature on AOL published in Pubmed, all of which is peer-reviewed. The problem with people like these is that they had some issues with their AOL group.(PW has confirmed that he was thrown out of his sangha) and now are out to take revenge on this blog.
3)Spiritual idealists like Zhoro: They are troubled creatures, they cannot reconcile their spiritual idealism with the mundane realities of their ‘real’ ‘personal’ life. As a defence mechanism they take a stand against something which they have cherished for long to convince themselves that they are standing up for their idealism
4)losers like skywalker: They made conscious decision to be big time in AOL. However, one fine day they realize that years after spending their life in AOL they have ‘gained nothing’. This ‘gained nothing’ state happens to make people on spiritual paths and then they revolt against the system which they cherished for a long time. They forget that ‘gaining something’ on a spiritual path is an outcome of a complex equation involving variables like ‘grace’ , ‘karma’ and ‘self-effort’.
5)intellectual toddlers like doubt: They come here , do their thing for a while and they leave. They are rather innocuous.
Having honest discussions with these people is not going to lead you anywhere. However, if you are looking for some entertainment, like I am, you can hang around here.
Yes, don’t waste your time. You and your wife Anna are welcome to leave. It’s much nicer around here when you two are gone, and intelligent discussion happens only when you two are gone. 😉
x
6) Desperate people like Harshal who can’t get a girlfriend for love nor money and who feel that the only way to release all their pent up frustration is to abuse people who are recovering from cult abuse and call this entertainment.
I’m sure girls will be lusting after you if you told them what you were up to here, it’s such a turn on.
@Anonymous: you seem to have some special love for me. Are you sure you are banging your head against the right wall?
@ Harshal: You mean like what you really like to do??? Don’t confuse me with you and don’t forget that some posters here know of you and what you really fancy …
@ Harshal
I would prefer to be intellectual toddler than an all knowing abusive, derogatory, and what not Harshal.
no.. you don’t understand. It not a matter of preference. Its just who you are and who you don’t want to be.
Harshal, you must be really very frustated person. Dumped by mother, father, girlfriend, and the rest of the world and I dont want to take away your only solace that is blabberring on this blog.
What happened to your hahahahahahh harshal personality. Not laughing any more.
Baby, don’t you cry, RS will take care of this blog with all his siddhi’s. All these bloggers will add to their bad karma. Nothing to worry Harshal, just go on drinking that holy juice of your master. hahaha
@Krish
Yes, that is what I’m looking for.
You don’t need a video.
I just read on a newspaper last week that a famous TV person set up a found for poor children.
Police found out that he collected more than 650.000 euro, trackable, plus cash donation, and he only used 80.000 to build schools for children, and used the other money to buy himself cars and houses.
He is going to trial for that and he risks jail plus huge fines.
No one brought him to court. No one had to get a lawyer for that. Someone may have alerted the financial police, but from there on the police itself took care of investigations and to charge him, like they do with every crime.
And don’t worry, police can investigate international money movements as well.
FBI collaborates with other countries as well.
There are strict regulations on how money are managed.
AOL is a huge foundation, if people here are sure of frauds, they can collaborate with the police as witness, or tell them the mechanisms they use for eluding the investigations.
As I said countless of times, you didn’t bring up any evidence, just rumors.
No one here said anything in particular factual, just suspicions.
Suspicion are not fact. If someone doesn’t know what happened in certain cases, they simply don’t know, and that is different from knowing that something bad happened.
As far as people here bringing up their experience in the organization, everything must be taken cautiously. And the problem is that every time I try to get more info to understand better, you attach me.
Some people may complain for something that happened, but how can we know if that people simply misunderstood the thing or if there was really something bad happening?
Take the example of the hotel booking, that someone brought as an example of the greediness of Sri Sri (and that is not scam itself anyway). Sri Sri complained that he has said to book another hotel. Both hotels were 5 stars. The person here complained that he was greedy, and swami said instead that the other hotel had bigger conference rooms.
So, what do you do in this case?
Swami answer was a reasonable justification. And then a normal person would think “well, he wasn’t going from a 3 stars to 5, but from a 5 to 5, the guy booking also said that they were both 5 starts luxury hotel, so, why should that be a sign of greediness?”
At this point you have to take a decision. You may think that swami answer was reasonable and the guy complaining was just upset for having done a mistake and for having Sri Sri complain with him for that. A move that you would expect from immature people.
At the same time this all episode is a rumor, it doesn’t have anything to do with a scam or a cult.
And no, I’m not an AOL person. I’m a scientist and among other stuff I study people. That is my usual approach for everything that has to do with people making statements like that. I try to have the whole picture. To see both sides. Then I apply my own reasoning and conclusions. And I look at the facts if there are.
For example I would check if it is true about the conference room (if this was important at all, and it is not). The guy here didn’t even write the name of the two hotels. We would have had the chance to compare the hotels by ourselves.
No, I don’t need a video. But if a person has real complains, you would expect them to put them out in a better form and to substantiate them.
@Anna, maybe you call yourself one but scientist you are not.
The more I grow up the more I realize how much more people have to evolve (that includes, u , me and ravi shankar and almost everybody i know) to reach the consciousness level of a true scientist.
@Dont
Keep going in your growing up process. Sooner or later you will reach the consciousness level of a grown up human.
Good luck.
But if a person has real complains, you would expect them to put them out in a better form and to substantiate them.
“Complaints” – what a way of dismissing all the bad, bitter experiences, manipulations, lies, deceit encountered in AoL by so many people here…
All you can do is take one incident and “analyze” it in your “scientific” manner, and all is ok? Please! The very fact of needing to stay in a 5 star hotel is greedy enough for a “guru” who claims to be simple, let alone all the other stuff.
And no, I’m not an AOL person.
And, there have been many persons who start off saying the same thing here, and later confess that they have taken several courses, etc. Past experience has made people suspicious of such claims here.
Anna,
So you are convinced that there are no inconsistencies in AOL? Or do you think it is bad to point out the inconsistencies in AOL if they are well evident? For example, to name a few
1 – The ‘Advanced Degree at the age of 17’. Isn’t it evident that it is a clear inconsistency here? Charge 20 here – https://aolfree.wordpress.com/the-prosecutor/ and more details here https://aolfree.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/god-moves-in-mysterious-ways/
2 – About inconsistencies about the research conducted on Sudarshana Kriya – https://aolfree.wordpress.com/2011/05/08/refuting-scientific-research-on-sudarshan-kriya/
3 – Allocation of resources for marketing and fame (like getting Nobel prize) instead of any service/seva – Charge 23, https://aolfree.wordpress.com/the-prosecutor/
4- Money getting invested in parallel business, like Inwinex Pharma http://money.sulekha.com/inwinex-pharmaceuticals_bse-announcements, Sumeru Realties etc when there are more meaningful things to be done (Orphanages, Schools etc)
5 – The one way flow of money in AOL. If you are in a local chapter, you can easily see that the Ashram is not at all funding any seva projects, you need to raise money your own for everything you do.
I guess all of us totally understand (and truly wish) that all the charges here are not true – https://aolfree.wordpress.com/the-prosecutor/
But with some common sense, it is pretty easy to see that there are *LOT* of inconsistencies in AOL all around. Most of them are ethical issues, and not financial. They are critical because AOL is not a company, it is a spiritual organization (as of today 😉 ).
If you want to ignore these ethical issues, may be that is because you are more comfortable that way.
@ Anna
You are really not looking for any thing/ proof and whenever proof stares at your face you just close your eyes on some vaugue pretext. As has been rightly pointed out by story2reality, most (allegations) of them are ethical. Just for example (and they are not from this blog they have been mentioned in AOL website:)
1. About his (HHSSRS) degrees at the age of 17.
2. About him being Nobel prize finalist
Aren’t they out and out lies. Can such an organisation (AOL) be spritual? It is simply in the business of lying ansd making money. Finally SATYAMEVA JAYATE (truth alone prevails). You can fool some persons all the times, all persons sometimes but you cannot fool all the persons all the time. So truth will emerge about AOL and not due to investigations carried out by the so called scientist Anna. You have always been asking about evidence from anti-aolites, have you ever tried to go through two of the above mentioned allegations. You won’t need any evidence for this. And if you are an honest scientist, shout on this blog that AOL lies at least on these two counts and then we can be begin exchanging more evidence of their wrong doing. Otherwise, what is the point of all this (In hindi we say, Bhains ke aage been bajane se kya faayda)
“And no, I’m not an AOL person. I’m a scientist and among other stuff I study people. ”
Fine – enjoy your life with Sri Sri. We are not here to convince you of anything. My experience and that of most others, is that we all see these warning signs, but ignore it and choose to remain blissfully ignorant. Just like you seem to be.
But maybe you do have some special insight as you claim. My conscience tells me to warn people about the dangers of AOL. After that it’s their decision. Clearly you seem to have processed everything on this blog and come you your own conclusion, after “scientifically” evaluating everything. Hope you have a great life with your beloved Sri Sri.
@Harshal,
You just posted a 40 minute Youtube clip, which appears to be in Hindi. I’ll happily approve it if you can at least give a synopsis of the clip or provide a reason as to why you posted it.
However I don’t really have the time to sit through all 40 minutes of it to work out what relevance, if any, it may have to this blog.
@Doctor or whomever is the blogmaster here:
Why are you posting junk from “Anna” who claims not to be in AOL, has no such experience, and claims to be “studying people”?? She has nothing to contribute here. She has no clue about the nature of Art of Living and Ravi Shankar. She has not lived with him, nor done the courses (according to her). Do you have to post each and every piece of garbage that floats up here? She is just either without work and looking for somebody to bash because her boyfriend doesn’t like her anymore, or is lying about not being in AOL. The conversation here grows tediously full of Harshals and Annas whose only purpose is to take attention from the real subject:
Ravi Shankar is a Demonic, Evil dude with a huge agenda, and who takes full advantage of everyone he can to increase his fame, wealth, and to get other things which will go unmentioned here. He is not spiritual.
Art of Living is his front organization, built up over many years, starting with a handful of serious seekers who were fooled into participating, collecting fees for his family’s enrichment, and culminating today in a grand “NGO” which bribes local officials to not be inspected in India, and which hires expensive lawyers and tax accountants to make sure that all the funds look okay, sort of.
Those two things are the subject. Not Saving Anna. Not Entertaining Harshal. Please stop their stupid posts and let real people enter the forum.
I personally have no need to convince those two useless people of anything. Why do you? I know my first-hand, several years experience with Ravi Shankar and Art of Living. I know many other peoples’ experience as well, and many have left. Those who have remained, often cried at how they would like to leave and have no where to go. Some of them are famous teachers for him now, known over the world. They hate their work. They hate that they are stuck there. They expressed the desire to leave so many times, and never had the guts. These are the very people that Art of Living members think are so great! They’ve learned to act. That’s all.
Please let the conversation come back to the real subjects.
“which bribes local officials to not be inspected in India, and which hires expensive lawyers and tax accountants to make sure that all the funds look okay, sort of”
ok. give proofs.
They hate their work. They hate that they are stuck there.
ok .give names.
Please stop their stupid posts and let real people enter the forum
ok. give your real name.
@anonymous,
I do feel the same way sometimes, and agree that the comments made by these people are really annoying and do tend to distract from the main issues, however we have made a decision to publish them all based on the following:
i) We encourage free speech here and anyone should be allowed to put forward their views
ii) The comments by these posters show just how over-zealous Art of Living devotees can be and really bring out the cult-like nature of the organization
iii) The comments also show how crude, vulgar, abusive, angry, unethical, hypocritical and illogical those same devotees are and this is something which is most likely attributed to their association with Art of Living
Basically, the comments made by these individuals are doing a lot more damage to Art of Living than they are good, and in fact in spite of this being pointed out on so many occasions they persist in making fools of themselves and of the organization they represent. In other words, we are giving them enough rope to hang themselves with, and so far so good this is exactly what they have done every time.
As such, I strongly feel we should print every single comment, and to date we have done exactly that. And believe me, I know people who have read their comments and who have been appalled and ashamed that there are people in Art of Living who behave in this manner.
@ Doctor
You forget something.
I KNOW who I am, and I KNOW I am not part of AOL.
I haven’t used any vulgar expression nor rough words. Those all came from the usual posters of this blog.
As me other people interested in knowing would end up treated in the same way.
I just encourage others to try.
@Anna,
I encourage you to read as many comments as you care to made by Doreen. She has challenged many things in these blogs and to date she is treated with the respect and courtesy she deserves. Why? Because she is a very respectful person herself and treats people accordingly.
You on the other hand have absolutely no sincere interest in searching for the truth, you only came here to start a fight. Whether you are technically part of AoL or not is moot here: you have done a number of courses, and you clearly have some association and a bias towards AoL, otherwise you wouldn’t waste any time here. You have intrinsically assumed AoL is all good and hence anyone speaking out against AoL must be bad, and this is the standpoint you have taken on this blog.
You have lied on so many occassions now, as I highlighted in my previous response to you. You still haven’t told us, why did you lie when you accused us of still having copyrighted materials on this site when clearly we don’t? Why Anna, what made you say this? Is it simply that you are a pathological liar?
And it’s obvious you aren’t even a scientist from what you’ve written, no true scientist would ever tell as many lies as you have just to try and prove a point. This is something you’ve just made up to try to give your comments some weight, but I don’t think you realize that people here are savvy enough to see straight through your little performance.
@ The Doctor
1-There are no comments made to Doreen in this blog
2-To read the crap in this blog is enough of a waste of time
3-There is no need to point out where the copyright material is. Everyone can see it.
4-There are many posts deleted in related blogs: so this is not free speech.
5-there is no reason to start a fight: that is the only reason why this blog was made, for you to start fights with everyone who challenges you.
6-You last post is totally based on unfunded accusations. I challenge you to find a single comment from me where I defended AOL. I only asked for proofs from you guys, and I challenged you every time you provided something that was not proof of any scam, while you claim it was.
I will wait for the results from the court. Don’t worry. There is just one thing I want to know, and then I will be gone from this blog.
1-There are no comments made to Doreen in this blog
Lie.
2-To read the crap in this blog is enough of a waste of time
Then why are you here? 😉
3-There is no need to point out where the copyright material is. Everyone can see it.
Would love to see what it is you are talking about. Just more of your usual bullshit.
5-there is no reason to start a fight: that is the only reason why this blog was made, for you to start fights with everyone who challenges you.
I agree. But you are here only to fight. You never answer questions and insult others regularly. Your whole reason to be here is to attempt to hurt people, which isn’t working.
6-You last post is totally based on unfunded accusations. I challenge you to find a single comment from me where I defended AOL. I only asked for proofs from you guys, and I challenged you every time you provided something that was not proof of any scam, while you claim it was.
hahahahaha 😀 Your whole agenda is defending this cult. You wouldn’t care about this blog if you weren’t in AOL.
There will be no court…just more of your scare tactic bullshit.
I was just trying to convey how Swami Agnivesh and Anna Hazare have be trapped by the evil forces of a dangerous cult. I was hoping that you and other enlightened masters and freed souls on this blog, with tremendous experiences and expertise in identifying and recovering from cults will give some insights to a well known gandhian , Anna Hazare and a well known activist swami Agnivesh. Both of them went to AOL ashram last week kept praising AOL and its founder. They think that AOL is doing tremendous work in rural India and elsewhere and happy to associate themselves with AOL in their crusade against corruption .Obviously they have been brainwashed and are not as intelligent and discerning as you people are and haven’t done their homework. How can they associate themselves with AOL ,while they are leading the biggest ant-corruption movement in India?. So I was just hoping that you would see the video, take pity on them and do the noble work of saving their souls from the dark evil forces.
This is the exact same twisted logic which Swami Sadyojatha uses in his letter where he states:
What you and the Swami are both alluding to is that “Person X likes/is associated with Art of Living therefore it must be good and these blogs must therefore be untrue”, where “Person X” is in some position of authority. The statement is a non-sequitur and is just an example of using an authoritative figure to try to prove something where no other proof is possible.
I have absolutely no idea who either of the people mentioned in your comment are, but there is no reason whatsoever why either of them should be above being deceived, as they clearly have been here.
And I really wonder what they’d make of the Swami’s letter if they were to read it …
“I have absolutely no idea who either of the people mentioned in your comment are”
That gives away that you are not an indian and you have no idea of what is happening in India.Unfortunately, you do not have right to comment on what I said.
So only an Indian person has the right to point the blatant flaws in your logic?
“How can Anna Hazare and Swami Agnivesh praise AOL ? ”
Maybe they too have been fooled by videos and propaganda, an have not bothered to investigate specifics. If Anna Hazare is associated with Prashant Bhushan, he obviously admires his work in supporting Binayak Sen, Narmada Bachao Andolan, etc. right ? Or just because Baba Ramdev is associated with Anti-corruption – everyone endorses his grandiose claims about ayurveda and yoga curing HIV/AIDS/homosexuality.
Anti-coruption movement is a movement by people of india to fight corruption. As usual sri sri is trying to get his chunk of publicity. There is a big difference between people like Anna Hazare and Arvind Kejriwal, and Sri Sri.
If IAC was movement run by RS – it would be about how great RS is that he is fighting corruption. People would spend their time writing his praises, and doing 20-40-40 to get rid of corruption, instead of actually taking action.
“Maybe they too have been fooled by videos and propaganda”
Yes. That was my whole point. Only you are smart enough to see through all the propaganda. Kudos!
Only you are smart enough to see through all the propaganda. Kudos!
Yes, I’m smart enough to make my own decisions. Some very smart people and top politicians used to visit the recently deceased Sai Baba. They chose to turn a blind eye to “miracles” which baba use to conjour up by sleight of hand.
As far as Anna Hazare and Swami Agnivesh are concerned, politics makes strange bedfellows. Maybe someone should ask them what they feel about commercialization of spirituality, as practiced by AOL.
I remember a report in Times Now, about organizations like AOL trying to take credit of the Anna Hazare movement.
The reporter told “You can see the devotees of Sri Sri with his play cards everywhere”.
Can we make a corollary to Godwin’s Law that states the longer any discussion continues, the probability of all participants being told they were just dumped, are still in kindergarten, have no life or are completely worthless human beings with the intellectual capacities of a rump roast approaches 1?
“don’t forget that some posters here know of you and what you really fancy”
ah some British dialect….
“So only an Indian person has the right to point the blatant flaws in your logic?”
No. Only the person who has the capacity to understand the logic with sufficient contextual information has the right to comment on it. sadly you do not have it.
” crude, vulgar, abusive, angry, unethical, hypocritical”
Its high time that you guys stop commenting about the crudeness of comments here. Your blog is doing poopy on all the contemporary saints in modern India who are revered and worshipped by millions. From MMY to amma ,Baba-ramdev Sri-Sri, Prem-Rawat and sai-baba.
I do not understand that you have the guts to open the hole on the anterior aspect of you body and demand decency from other people. Is there any saint you have left? If you throw shit all over other peoples beliefs and places of reverence , some will fall back on you. Its just the law of gravity.
And doctor , now that I know you are not Indian, I know where you are coming from. You do not quite know what a Guru is or what a Guru means , but I should not blame you for that its just your upbringing….
Harshy, please quit acting like you’re this ignorant. You’re on a roll today with the dumb comments. Surely you aren’t this ignorant, right?
Whatever it is you are lacking in your life, you’re not going to find it by throwing salt on good people.
Harshal – You missed Nitthy. Your guru even visited his ashram both in thiru as well as in california.
So, you say all activities done by AOL can be justified just because Anna Hazare visited the AOL campus?
Same logic goes here? See the visiting list of Nithy’s Dhyanapeetam. You may be able to recognize few faces there.
http://www.dhyanapeetam.org/web/Leaders.asp
Oh, there were true saints here with out a business model around them for generating a cash flow.
Heard about Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Rama Krishna etc? 😉 Ramana told
“God dwells in you, as you, and you don’t have to ‘do’ anything to be God-realized or Self-realized, it is already your true and natural state.” Just drop all seeking, turn your attention inward, and sacrifice your mind to the One Self radiating in the Heart of your very being. For this to be your own presently lived experience, Self-Inquiry is the one direct and immediate way.”
If some one destroys your self-belief to make you dependent on them and on the practices – you should be careful 🙂
When there
Yeah, right! being born in India automatically confers knowledge on all that is spiritual and if not, a person can NEVER know what it really means!
Yet another cheap bias, part of the indian spiritual superiority complex – likely from Ravi Ravi making fun of ‘foreign beggars’ in the ashram childishly, and how they’ll never advance as much as his beloved indian followers.
Been there, seen that!
This in response to an earlier comment made by Anna earlier on that a drug is studied only for two months. I am a scientist associated with the drug discovery process, and I can confrim that the above statement is completely baseless and that Anna has no knowledge whatsoever of the drug discovery process if his assertion is that only two months worth of research goes into studying a drug.
It takes a pharma company anywhere between 7 – 12 yrs of research, close to 1 billion USD and atleast seven rounds of regulatory approval to bring a new drug into the market.The costs of the drug discovery process in the USA and Europe are being defrayed by deploying the clinical trials offshore to India and China.
The pharma companies, unlike these spiritual gurus need to back up evry claim of their regarding the drug, with scientifically verifiable and reproducible data.They also need to be prepared to answer each and evry question of the regulatory authorities (eg. USFDA, DCGI)by presenting scientific data.
apparently same is not true of “herbel medicines” – they are sold OTC, without much regulation. SK is something like that – buyer beware!
@stupidseeker
“Drug discovery Process”
That is not clinical trials.
And clinical trials are generally not studied for more than two months on single patients.
Anna
You are a pseudo scientist.
Are you a scientist?? I seriously doubt it. Two months !!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_trial
Check oout the Wikipaedia link for clinical trials. Wiki is good enuff for laymen. Do you seriously think clinical trials from Phase 1 – 4 last only two months??
@ Great Scientist (Who probably have obtained her degrees from the same source from where HHSSRS have also obtained dual degrees at the age of 17)
Wikipedia explains, why clinical trial may take years as:
Some reasons a clinical trial might last several years:
For chronic conditions like cancer, it takes months, if not years, to see if a cancer treatment has an effect on a patient.
For drugs that are not expected to have a strong effect (meaning a large number of patients must be recruited to observe any effect), recruiting enough patients to test the drug’s effectiveness (i.e., getting statistical power) can take several years.
Only certain people who have the target disease condition are eligible to take part in each clinical trial. Researchers who treat these particular patients must participate in the trial. Then they must identify the desirable patients and obtain consent from them or their families to take part in the trial.
Moreover in the developed world the drug upon getting approval is studied continously for both efficacy and toxicity for the rest of its lifetime.This is generally done by practising physicians who prescribe the drug to their patients, and report observed effects in journals for the wider medical communiity.This unfortunately is not a widely followed habit in the wider indian medical community.
Gosh, you cannot even understand a wikipedia page.
So Anna is here to stay. I had no doubt that you will skirt all issues, inconvenient questions and remain on this blog like our friend Harshal does. So great scientist, which university did you go to?
Thought you left for good because everyone here was just soooo below your high IQ and accomplishment level, Anna, dear. What happened? Bored with your life? Loving AOL so much you need to defend, even while contradicting yourself that you’d never come here again? Soooooo Haaaaammmm
@ Anna,
Thank God ur not a clinician
“Heard about Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Rama Krishna etc?”
Yes I have heard. And when they were around even they had stupid low-life critiques like you.
Ramana was criticized for observing caste-system,He was accused of having no teaching of his own.
Click to access jivanmukti.pdf
The idea is that as long as spiritual gurus come , mosquitoes like you will sing their songs and bite here and there.
Harshal – Interesting points harshal. Do you know if Ramana also collected money in the name of charity and invested in family business enterprises. And it will also be intresting to know what was ramana charging for his ‘Who am I’ course.
The idea is that you have to listen to teachings with discrimination – no matter where they come from.
Einstien was criticized for claiming god does not play dice, even though he was undoubtedly a brilliant man, with some amazing insights. Just because Obama is a popular president, does not mean he is above critique.
RS is not even in the same league as Ramana and Einstein. He openly lies on his resume, and skims money from charities. How dysfunctional is that!
“The idea is that you have to listen to teachings with discrimination”
Your problem, PW, is that you don’t have discrimination(and ya, as your friends point-‘flaws in logic’ too). You cant do anything with any teachings.
@Harshal,
Clearly the teachings have helped you become a more refined person ;). Congrats to your guru for creating such a specimen like you – he must be so proud!
These kind of fallacies are commonly used by AOL teachers to convince the flock that all is well with AOL and surprisingly it works on many people.
Logical fallacy alert!
“All genuine gurus have had detractors during their lifetime” – Ramana Maharishi, Sri Ramakrishna etc. True that. That doesn’t automatically mean that anyone who has a detractor is a genuine guru (sri^2 etc.) – got that, hyperventilated zombies?
More twisted logic, and again something similar was used by your beloved Swamiji in his scathing letter:
The fallacy goes:
Person X was a saint. Person X was criticized
Person Y is being criticized. Therefore Person Y must be a saint
So Harshal, by your logic then, given that myself, Skywalker and Peaceful Warrior have all been criticized by you and other AoL extremists on this blog, we must all be saints, right? 😉
In which case, you need to bow to down to all of us and kiss our feet!
x
Woohooo! I love logic!!!
now kiss my feet.
no. You don’t have any followers and hence you are not a saint.So the logic doesn’t apply to you.
On a slightly unrelated topic…How much did they pay you when you sold your grey matter?
Harshy, come on, you know that’s not true. This blog has followers, I am contributing to and moderating this blog, so in a way I/we do have followers.
In fact, as you yourself follow this blog on a regular basis, surely that makes you one of my/our followers, and I have to say a very devoted one at that, spending a good amount of time daily imbibing the knowledge presented here and even giving a little something back yourself (seva).
So in your time Harshal, you know how it works by now, you may bow your head down and kiss my feet.
😀
Anna wrote-
> 3-There is no need to point out where the copyright material is. Everyone can see it.
Very convincing answer from a scientist! Did you also get science degree at an early age like Ravi Shankar?
Anna – your credibility took a nose dive with just this one statement. I bet your AOL handler is getting pretty upset now.
@Harshal.
Would you please stop using my civil disagreement with PW’s admittedly flawed parallel in ONE INSTANCE to claim that his friends say his logic IS flawed in a general sense. It’s a perfect example of why your arguments lack credibility. Seriously, I refuse to allow my words to be used against me and PW in this way.
Knock it off.
BTW,
harshal is not trying to make any sort of cogent argument – just trying to get under people’s skin. Logic is not going to work with him ;).
“harshal is not trying to make any sort of cogent argument”
Yes. I am not here to present any logical argument, prove a point or remove ignorance etc etc. I have said this million times.
I am just here having some entertainment, why is it so difficult for some of you to accept that?
@theartofleaving- I read your blog. Are you still drunk?
are you still ugly?
oops sorry I thought that was a joke. MY BAD!
@theartofliving: I think this thing from Ramayana is so much applicable to you..
Ayodhya Kanda-It is also characteristic of faithless women to lead a false life, do acts unworthy of them, possess a heart ever unfathomable, be inclined to do sinful acts and in a trice cease to be affectionate.
OK I just want to get this straight.
Are you comparing me to Kaikeyi? Are you in all seriousness suggesting that I, as you read in my latest blog post
(http://theartofleaving.wordpress.com/2011/05/30/neverland-transcendent-nipples-and-bitches-i-didnt-punch/)
as a woman who enjoyed a night out with her sister, drank some wine, flirted with a spanish boy and went out dancing I am comparable to a mythological queen so insecure and paranoid she demands the exile of Rama from her husband’s kingdom?
seriously?
Is having fun in a nightclub tantamount to exiling the reincarnation of Vishnu in your world?
or is it my renunciation of SSRS that makes me a “faithless woman leading a false life” ?
do you have ANY idea what you sound like?
My god I wish I’d met people like you in AoL sooner, I never would have believed the hype for a second.
LOL Anna! I love your blog. And your comments here. You are very funny!
So now let’s find someone to compare Sri Sri with? Since you are Kaykeyi?
Ummmm. Let’s see. How about Hitler?? Yes!! Or, any one of Hitler’s torturers/murderers? Does it matter that Sri Sri hasn’t murdered anyone (that we know of, yet). Noooooo! And that he has not committed genocide? Nooooo. So let’s start! What fun!
I’m so tired of this Harshal ‘person’. AOL clones come in two stripes: First is super sweet, like syrup, oozing niceness (all fake). Second is like acid, hates everyone that doesn’t agree with him, cannot tolerate criticism in any form, and especially not of his master. Usually the 2nd type is actually hidden under the first type, not very deep below the surface.
“LOL Anna! I love your blog.”
I don’t have any blog.
“This blog has followers, I am contributing to and moderating this blog, so in a way I/we do have followers”
How many followers do you have 3,4? that doesnt qualify. Infact the number of hits to this site has never been so low..its almost dead now.
Oh, lol. You are saying traffic is dead for this blog, where each post is getting atleast 30-40 comments (Thanks to you as well for that ;))
Btw, go and comment some where in http://artoflivinglifestories.blogspot.com/ << hopefully it'll improve the traffic there. People will at least come there for entertainment, to read your comments. 😉
Yeah, Harshal — your tactics are actually working. People at our work got so sick of your BS they just gave up posting for the most part. Can’t blame them. There is no reasoning with an AOL Troll like you. It’s High Time (to quote what you always begin your pompostitudes with) that you went away and posted on AOL sites where your foolishness makes perfect sense to everyone because they are all braindead (like you), but still have words spewing from their diminished gray matter.
You are a pakka bore, Harshal
I read this blog page…
So much effort, so much bitterness, so much stuff being talked about to such an extent rather than do things good for the world… Why??? Step out and just help some one who really needs Help.
Also, please see the movie CONTACT (Based on the great scientist Carl Sagan’s novel). Watch till the end when the protogonist is questioned about her experiences…