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Where does a guru get his power from?

October 7, 2010

Where does a guru get his power from? For me, the answer is simple: from all those who give away their power to him. This power is then abused by the guru to further trap and manipulate his devotees and garner even more power.

While researching internet on this subject, I came across the article below that you may also find interesting. And before you tell me that a good guru wouldn’t abuse power, I have to say a good guru wouldn’t want your power in the first place! What use or need an enlightened Master would have for other people’s power?

Some of you may have been surprised or even shocked by the kind of attention our blog has received from SriSri and his agents, esp. Sad Swami’s vicious attacks on those presumed to be the bloggers. Why would SriSri be so worried about our blog that he has ordered so many attacks on it and the creation of so many counter-blogs? What madness caused him to dictate that letter to Sad. Swami and sending it to all AOL groups? Aren’t you surprised that they are so worried about 5-6 negative bloggers (according to Sad. Swami himself) ? Doesn’t SriSri often say that the less devotees he has the less work for him. So why does he worry about few devotees leaving him?

The fact of the matter is that SriSri doesn’t have any power of his own. He feeds off the power that his devotees surrender to him. Each person that wakes up and reclaims his/her own power back is reducing SriSri’s base of power. This monster’s power base is reducing, so he is lashing out.

Those of you who attended the recent TRM in European Ashram, heard with your own ears how worried SriSri is about our blog. You heard with your own ears the comments he made about the alleged blogger (followed by Swami’s vicious letter). Such an insecure guru and do you still keep giving away your power to him? What does it take to wake you up, to see that this guru has nothing to give to you, that he is dependent on you for his power?

Not only you are giving away your power, but also you are trapping other innocent people to feed your guru’s insatiable thirst for power. To me, that is a crime. Wake up and free yourself. If you prefer the security of your slavery/dependence on SriSri, that is fine, but at least stop deceiving the innocent seekers. One day, not too long from now, they will confront you and you can no longer say you didn’t know!

http://www.onenesswebsite.com/speak.html

Extracts from August 2007 post

…..At the same time, you might ask yourself “what’s the harm in it, as far as I’m concerned? Energy is being transmitted through “deeksha.” That has to be good. Right?” This question opened up an entirely different avenue of exploration. And the information I uncovered in delving into it, proved to be equally fascinating.

When a “guru” establishes a connection with a spiritual aspirant, through the imparting of energy …often accompanied by a secret mantra …a spiritual cord is established through which, in theory, the “guru” can continue to feed the student with energy. This is part of the timeless tradition of “guru” and disciple. And when practiced with integrity, it can supply the aspiring student with an abundant energy-boost that can greatly accelerate the process of spiritual transformation. It is for this reason that so many feel guided to seek to affiliate with an Indian “guru”, to receive “deeksha” or “shaktipat”, or simply to be in the physical presence of such a one, whose vibration is extremely high.

What we often don’t suspect, is that the spiritual cord which the “guru” establishes with his student through these practices, is able to carry energy both ways. When the “guru” has dubious connections himself, or has motives that are rooted in ego and spiritual empire-building, the cord can be used to direct the energy-flow the other way and literally “vacuum-out” the unsuspecting student, vibrationally. This could explain why, after being in the presence of certain “gurus”, what may have started-out feeling quite nice, suddenly doesn’t feel good at all.

Initially, in these unscrupulous practices, the student is given a little dose of energy. At first. In this way, any doubts or concerns one may have had are soothed. And we become open …and trusting. It is only later that the tap is re-directed, and the energy begins to flow the other way …from the student to the “guru.”

In cases where the integrity of the “guru” and his organization is further compromised by an affiliation with a Black Tantric practitioner, the unsuspecting student’s energy is actually sucked through the “guru” and filtered directly to feed the Black Tantric individuals who stand behind the entire “spiritual” super-structure.

In cases where certain individuals have received an initiation and are declared to be qualified to be giving so-called “deeksha” energy to others, a spiritual cord has been well established within them, to the extent that they would be able to function as mediums for the guru. And through these people, the energy of others can be drained. In this way, the insidious practice of energy piracy can be practiced clandestinely by certain so-called Indian “gurus”, while couched in lovely, believable-sounding spiritual jargon calculated to ensnare the hearts …and wallets …of sincere and financially affluent seekers in the West.

It turns out that this is a practice that is actually quite widespread in India …and elsewhere. And according to the information I uncovered, this could well explain the mysterious symptoms so many have been reporting. Who would ever have suspected it?

So, what is the message to all of us, in revealing this perhaps astounding information? I would say to you that the lesson here is discernment. As western spiritual seekers, we are often naive and trusting where “gurus” …and where anyone sporting a little amped-up energy …is concerned. We are often far too quick to give our power away and serve ourselves up on a platter, which we then place at the feet of someone whose affiliations may be questionable.

The opportunity in these times of mass spiritual awakening and inner re-directedness, is to become spiritually “street smart.” Everything coming down the spiritual pike is not necessarily Divinely-inspired. There are all sorts of scams, fronted by individuals who are parading around as “Divinity incarnate”, in these times. It is for those of us who are sincerely God-focused, to be extremely careful in selecting those who will help us on our own personalized path to the Divine inner-connection I’ve come to know as “Oneness.”

The message I documented in the name of that Source is a message of Self-empowerment. The teachings of Oneness guide us in sourcing the experience of the Divinity harbored within our own inner depths, without getting ensnared in the trappings of a spiritual hierarchy or a religious organization. Should we feel that the guidance of an incarnate teacher is desired, Oneness helps us to take care in selecting him or her.

The message in bringing the foregoing information to light is to encourage each of us to do our homework. Resources abound in these times that support us in investigating thoroughly those whom we may be considering as candidates for guiding us into the sacred ground that awaits us within. The internet is brimming with firsthand stories of those who have blazed the trail before us with virtually any “guru” you may be considering. Google them …freely! You may find that by adding a word like “scam” to names you might wish to investigate, the Google results become particularly eye-opening.

I have hesitated a thousand times before choosing to come forth with the results of my own investigation into the dynamics of “guru-dom.” Some may wonder if I have personal motives for doing so. I can tell you, in all honesty, that I do not. My only hope, in presenting this information to you, is to spur you on to investigate for yourself, and to draw your own conclusions. Rasha

**************************

My open letter to you all, printed above, and the choice to come forth with it at this time, was inspired by the following passages, received from Oneness a few days ago. I am including the communication here, in its entirety, as the August selection of “Oneness Speaks.”

…..When one encounters a teacher, a path or a book that rings true, it is as though one has happened upon the ultimate word in spiritual expression. In that particular set of eyes, all else pales by comparison. And blinders are donned, from that point forth that could prevent the spiritual aspirant from becoming distracted by anything else that might beckon for one’s attention. What is less apparent is the extent to which others are having similar or identical experiences, albeit via a different avenue. The diversity in expression within the human populace presently making this journey attests to the individualized nature in which the collective unites, one heart at a time, into the embrace of Oneness.

There are those one encounters along the way who have devised methods that appeal to those seeking short-cuts and an effortless route to spiritual awakening. These tricksters and their methods are as timeless as the human quest for the Divine itself. Elaborate schemes are designed, and anointed with sacred-sounding jargon, that would lure the unsuspecting seeker into a false sense of security. It is through these compromised energies that many receive their very first taste of augmented vibration, and they are easily misled into believing that they have experienced Divinity made manifest at the hands of these individuals and the organizations they represent.

Many, unwittingly have lent their own hands to the perpetuation of spiritual scams that are essentially little more than financial empire building with a spiritual twist. Certain timeless spiritual truisms may be sprinkled liberally through their format, in order to win the public’s trust and attention. And in this way, the unshielded individual is able to be exploited, not only financially but divested of his resources of energy, in the process.

Many such scams have arisen in these times which are built on foundations of questionable motives and compromised practices. It is for the spiritual seeker to exercise discernment with regard to what is imbibed in the name of Divine Light energy. For, all that can be perceived as “energy” is not necessarily something that will speed you on your way to your rendezvous with Divinity.

Much that abounds in the spiritual marketplace in these times is energy that quite literally has “strings attached.” The token sampling of energies with which you are initially gifted, and which may seem harmless enough at first, may well come complete with energy lines, commonly referred to as spiritual “cords” through which your energies may continue to be drained over the course of time. Initially, you may well experience the feeling of elation or joy during these introductory sessions. Yet, as time goes by, you discover that you are not feeling at all blissful …and that your circumstances have begun to deteriorate. Sometimes, when the practice of receiving these energy “treatments” has not been continued, it is difficult to make the correlation between the downward spiral one begins to experience and the initial, so-called energy “blessing” one may have received somewhere along the way.

The “cord”, by then would be well in place and would be serving those who have created these systems with an ever expanding source of energy with which to attract new followers. The largely unsuspecting givers of these energies are serving as mediums through which the life force of others can be filtered into a central core, through which escalating power and mind-control tactics can then be orchestrated.

It is your responsibility in these times, which are so ripe for the exploits of the spiritual opportunist, that you become discerning in what you choose to believe and what you choose to imbibe vibrationally. “Instant enlightenment” is not something bestowed upon seekers for a fee, hefty or otherwise …regardless of what may have been claimed. And those who might have you believe that jumping on their bandwagon will get you an effortless ride to Self-Realization have given you something to question, rather than something to be automatically snapped-up.

The foundation of the teachings of this Source is Self-empowerment. The energies that others may be touting are the spiritual birthright of everyone in human form. This phenomenon of radiating “Divine Light” through the hands is not something new. And no organization has a trademark on it. As you elevate your vibration through your own conscientious, self-styled spiritual practice, you will discover that these energies flow through you as naturally as breath, in response to the focus of your attention. You are not required to declare your devotion to anyone in human form for this to manifest. It is a natural part of the human condition and has been so since humankind’s humblest beginnings. What differentiates those earlier populations from the one at hand is the widespread awareness of the spiritual awakened amongst you that this is so.

It is in the highest interests of anyone who considers himself to be on the journey to Oneness to be selective in what one chooses to receive in the name of that Divine Source. For the journey that some have packaged and will attempt to market to the sincerely trusting and the unsuspecting amongst you, is not one that needs to be delivered to you from another being …at any price. It is something that is readily available to you …absolutely free of charge …from the Divinity that waits within your very own being. That connection is best made within the sanctity of one’s own sacred self and doesn’t require fanfare, the trappings of methodology and complicated systems of man-made dogma.

It is all so simple. So pure. And so readily available …when you cease seeking it from the world outside you …and in the sanctity of your own Inner Stillness you recognize the Divine touch you yearn for as something that’s already there. And has been all along. You Are the Oneness that is sought. And you will realize the experience of it when you transcend the need to believe it. And allow yourself the grace to simply know it.

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96 Comments
  1. Independent Observer permalink
    October 7, 2010 1:47 am

    Great Post Whistleblower.

    For all those at AOL who also have had other exposures to other energy based alternative healing therapies….you will relate to this very well. For the others….recommend you invest sometime doing some Spiritual Shopping (and don’t tell your part-1 teacher this) and learn a bit from other teachers.

    It will broaden up your Horizon and deepen your roots (into your true self)

    Take what works and leave the rest.

    Dear Doctor,

    Everytime I read your posts, your goodness oozes out. There are something you do not change. You are just watchful and cautious. We don’t have to be against them….just become aware and move on. Please have no regrets that AOL turned out this way. Just be happy that you became aware. There is so much still left to do. Existence is truly brilliant.

  2. guru ho ja suru permalink
    October 7, 2010 2:26 am

    not only that the poor disciple also share the bad karma generated through cunning action of the master. one of the ex aol devotee was passing through bad time. though he had lost faith in the organization he had full faith in ravi . one day after visiting his office i told him to remove the picture of ravi just for four weeks just as an experiment. though reluctantly the devotee removed the picture of ravi from his office. he was surprised to see the that all the mess and clutter around him started getting cleared by the third week. now more than three months have passed and the devotee (off-course ex now) is quite a relieved man.

  3. Researcher permalink
    October 7, 2010 8:31 am

    Adyashanti has a comment on this.

    On the path, the spiritual seeker grows weary of everyday life, he is disappointed that things don’t work the way it’s been promised. The supposedly perfect systems created and fine tuned to perfection (political, social, economic, educational) we interact with are far from perfect.

    This pushes the seeker towards religion or the spiritual path in the search for answers. He spends many years following a master or studying some teaching, maybe living with the disciples, and spending many waking hours in such seeking. He then realizes this “system” is equally broken, maybe worse than the socio-political one he discarded earlier.

    Then the seeker is ripped from this cesspool and thrown into the lonely path of self discovery, as it can only happen by one’s own effort, without some magic grace from an enlightened master or the teachings from some three thousand year old sacred texts or some magic blessing from an angel or god. One realizes these tools that were useful earlier, have now become hindrances on the path of self realization, one drops them and travels the path alone.

  4. Prairie Princess permalink
    October 7, 2010 1:32 pm

    Adyashanti may be one of the ones who are actually clear and worth listening to. Thanks so much for this article. It has helped me clarify some of the disconnect I felt in dealing with AoL sheeple. How does one remove any cords to a guru other than removing the pictures from the home and car?

    • Anonymous permalink
      October 7, 2010 2:39 pm

      First step: Start believing in yourSELF!

    • WhistleBlower permalink
      October 7, 2010 7:27 pm

      “How does one remove any cords to a guru other than removing the pictures from the home and car?” Good question Prairie Princess.

      Removing the pictures is only removing the outer symbols of the attachment/cord to the guru. More important is the inner hooks/cords. To do that we need to totally understand our experience with AOL (or any other cult for that matter) and become fully aware of how we got entrapped in the first place. There is no doubt whatsoever that cults like AOL work and expand by deceiving people and have powerful mechanisms to do so. Understanding these is necessary and it will help a sincere seeker to severe the cord to AOL/SriSri, but that is only one side of the coin. We need to understand the other side of the coin too, i.e. our part in it.

      What made us to fall for this trap? The belief that someone can show us the way to enlightenment perhaps? that the spiritual masters from India have the key? Our good experience perhaps (https://aolfree.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/original-sin-in-aol-the-final-salvation/)? that our basic course teacher was a nice, intelligent person, so we could trust their judgement? wanting to save the world? love of service? , etc.etc.

      Self analysis is important (as painful as it may be) and necessary, otherwise we may fall for another guru’s trap. We also need to understand what kept us going in the cult for so long (another painful self-analysis). I liked Mary Jane’s post excellent and humorous look at this https://aolfree.wordpress.com/2010/09/19/drugs-are-friday-nights-cults-are-247/

      Once we fully understand what hooked us to this charlatan guru in the first place, then we can truly unhook ourselves and gain life immunity to any crooked guru. We also have a responsibility to get the truth out about these false gurus/cults so as to protect other innocent people from falling into their traps. If as AOL teachers we hooked other people to this false guru, we are now responsible to let them know so they can also free themselves. As much as they repeatedly told us in AOL that it is guru’s grace bringing people to AOL, I know for a fact, that my students trusted me and came to AOL because of me and because they trusted me and my integrity. As ex-AOL teachers, It is not just good enough to free ourselves only, we do have a responsibility toward the people we brought to AOL.
      That is the only reason I write in this blog, otherwise I have totally moved on from AOL and am complete with my experience of it and quite honestly would have preferred to never hear one more word about AOL or its charlatan guru.
      I do hope all ex-AOL Teachers come forward and expose AOL and its leader for what it truly is, another con-scheme in cover of spirituality! And we can all pass this blog and Klim’s blog address to anyone we know in AOL. What they do with it is up to them.

  5. ex_jaigurudev permalink
    October 7, 2010 1:46 pm

    This is among the best post I have read on this blog.
    Great post whistleblower. This must stay on the top of the “Recommended Posts”

    Something for AOL’ers to ponder over

  6. The Doctor permalink
    October 7, 2010 1:59 pm

    Whistleblower,

    This is a brilliant article, and thank you so much for sharing it with us. This is a real wake up call for anyone and everyone who wants to follow any spiritual path, not just people who are/were involved with AoL.

    What strikes me as amazing is that it was almost written with AoL in mind, but highlights the fact that AoL is not the only organization cheating people in this way. There are many others too and it appears to be a very common practice. We here just happened to be exposed to one of many.

    I really hope that this helps any sincere seekers who are having doubts about AoL to tread with more caution and be more discriminating.

    • Anonymous permalink
      October 7, 2010 5:11 pm

      Although I find this post from oneness really good at first sight, I immediatly have an enourmous resistance, because again it is a group from India and the whole thing is again based on transmitting energy from one person to the other, the person transmitting the energy having to go through some processes in the oneness group. This reminds me very much of the blessings and othercourses. I don´t want to experience the same kind of thing any more. Whistleblower, I would really appreciate if you could comment on that. My doubts mainly come because they might also here be a discrepance between what they write and what they do, which maybe you will find out later on. Thanks for any help.

      • WhistleBlower permalink
        October 7, 2010 6:03 pm

        The oneness in the enclosed article is totally different from the oneness organization in India run by another crooked guru, kalki. The author Rasha indeed had written the article to warn against Kalki oneness. If you check the website and read the full article this becomes more clear.
        It was good that you felt resistance, it shows you are getting healthy and more aware of the cults. The fact is that cults are essentially the same. If you really understand one cult and how they operate, you have understood them all. You will be able to see the danger signs straightaway. Any movement which asks the followers to surrender their power to a leader/guru is a cult and is open to abuse and corruption.

      • Anonymous permalink
        October 7, 2010 6:13 pm

        Thank you very much for your comment. It was really helpful.

      • October 7, 2010 7:23 pm

        I agree with you: the whole “energy -good or bad- can be transmitted from one person to another” idea is

        1) false, no such thing has ever been documented reliably
        2) essentially disempowering people, because they believe that they need a Good Guru to grow and may be cursed by a Bad Guru, if they feel bad
        3) promoting the concept of siddhis, superhuman abilities, parapsychological powers, thus creating fear in the devotees who want their life back; they will be afraid to leave the guru.

        I too found that the post is crap. Yes, Gurus get their power from the devotees. But the devotee can choose to stop being a devotee, and then all the power comes back to him, instantly. That is my personal experience.

  7. Harshal permalink
    October 7, 2010 2:23 pm

    @ doctor: YES! pesudo-intellectuals like you finally reach the conclusion you have reached. ‘most of the things in the world are bad and we should be very careful’…while pseudo-idealist like zhoro are not able to reconcile with their shortcomings and find an entity to transfer the blames. I think that these two categories are of people are more dangerous than idiots like shashtry. Its funny how you keep coming back to the blog after small hiatus … just like a PMS. It is so absolutely ridiculous that –in one of the post you have accepted that ‘most of these things are allegations with no solid proof ‘ however whenever you get a chance you spread your projectile vomits. I recommend domperidone OD.

    • The Doctor permalink
      October 7, 2010 7:28 pm

      @Harshal,

      Before I begin, just for the record, I have never once said that ‘most of these things are allegations with no solid proof ‘. I wouldn’t say something like this, because there is actually a great deal of evidence for a great many things said here, which I’ll summarize in due course. However, if you can point me to exactly when I said this, I will happily stand corrected.

      Now, I’m actually going to be very sincere here: one day, hopefully soon, you are going to wake up from this as I and a great many other people have, and you’re going to realize the truth of what Art of Living really is. And let me tell you, it’s really going to hurt, and it’ll take time to heal, maybe months, maybe years, I can’t say for sure. I’m not trying to be melodramatic here or to scare you, I’m sharing my own experience with you. The way you’ve been acting on these blogs is a major symptom of what I think you know is coming, you are terrified and you are trying your best to prevent it from happening.

      Just so that you know, I have absolutely nothing against you at all, because I know your acting this way isn’t your fault. You are trying to defend something which you believe in so strongly, and you are acting out of fear that that thing is being attacked unrighteously. You see people on this blog as being your enemies and being a threat to your very existence, and this is understable. We have a different perspective from you, but many of us used to have the same or similar perspective at one time of our lives, when we were involved with Art of Living and had our hearts set on saving the world. It seemed so beautiful at the time, but looking back we can now see it for what it truly was.

      It is my desire, Harshal, that one day when you do come to this realization that you won’t be badly hurt by it, and will heal quickly. I really do mean this. I am not going to waste my time or yours arguing with you. If you excuse the analogy, it is like arguing with someone who is drunk: in that state they are not themselves, so heavily intoxicated by the alcohol in their system, their perspective is very skewed from what it normally is. It is always better to wait until they are sober so you can at least talk with them on the same level.

      And Harshal, I feel this way not just about you, but about a great many people posting here who haven’t woken up and seen AoL for what it truly is. These blogs are here for them, and will continue to grow in order to help people see sense and escape whilst they still can.

      • Srikkanth permalink
        October 8, 2010 6:50 am

        Dear Doctor, You say that you had been in AOL and left after seeing ‘The Light of Day”. You also say that the after effect of leaving AOL was agonising.

        However I thin you never really have left AOL. Earlier you related in a positive way and now you are related in a negative way. Any way you are related. Either you can be related like Bibhisana/Hanuman or Ravana. It does not make much of a difference. Ravan tooo got enlightened, of course after his death.

        If you are really free from AOL you should not be maintaing a blog about AOL whther pro / or anti.

        Does not make any sense? ASk any psuychologist or for more explanations please read OSHO.

      • The Doctor permalink
        October 8, 2010 7:26 am

        Dear Srikkanth,

        Actually I am a huge fan of Osho, his words really resonate with me more than any other spiritual teacher. But in what I’ve read of his, there is nothing which touches upon what you are saying here. Please can you point me in the direction of something specific and I’ll look into it?

        Regarding:

        If you are really free from AOL you should not be maintaing a blog about AOL whther pro / or anti.

        I said I’d left AoL, but you are right, I’m not really “free” of AoL yet. I still have work to do in this respect. I have certainly seen the light, but a great many people I know still haven’t, and I’m going to help them see it too. And a great many beautiful, well-meaning souls are sitll abound in the world who are vulnerable enough to be taken in and who may potentially go through the same bad experiences we are describing here. I really want to help them to see the light before they even have a chance to be sucked into it.

    • Anonymous permalink
      October 7, 2010 7:35 pm

      @Harshal
      If I was the owner of the blog I would have a hard time not to delete your post which is all the time completely unobjective, full of rancour and sarcasm. There is nothing constructive about it. It shows the integrity of the blog owner that he does not do that.In spite of all differences it would be wonderful if we could communicate as adults. Are you sure your Guru would like the impression you are giving here?

      • Anonymous permalink
        October 8, 2010 7:25 pm

        I´m talking about Harshal not of course about the doctor. But as my post is now after the doctor´s it seems I mean him, when I´m talking about being aggressive and full of rancour.

    • Observer permalink
      October 8, 2010 6:31 am

      The way you’ve been acting on these blogs is a major symptom of what I think you know is coming, you are terrified and you are trying your best to prevent it from happening.

      Very good observation by Doctor, here. Harshal really needs to look into himself/ herself. Must forget what has been “learned” in AoL (not SK and techniques, those may be beneficial, but the other “guru is god” kind of indoctrination) and learn to think for oneself. If only Harshal realizes how many of us were in the same boat as him/ her, and how much we can identify with what Harshal is going through…
      All the Best to you, Harshal!

    • Peaceful Warrior permalink
      October 8, 2010 4:11 pm

      @Harshal

      You are no intellectual to call people psuedo-intellectual.

      Guys please ignore this character – He does not have any points to make – he just throws invectives at you in the hope that you will take the bait and devolve to his level.

      I would even suggest moderators to ban his abusive posts. Even on free-speech blogs there is something called net etiquette and we all need to adhere to that.

  8. Srikkanth permalink
    October 7, 2010 5:46 pm

    In spite of all the negative opinions expressed in this blog and other ones of its kind about Sri Sri in particular and Indian (Hindu) Spiritual Masters in General, millions of people need these masters. I for one have been tremendously benefitted. It is my own experience. I do not need somebody’s testimonials to authenticate my authenticate exprience.

    History repeats itself. Come what may nobody will remember thses negative blogs. What the world at large will remember is Sri Sir and his contribution to humanity.

    • Abhilash Shastry permalink
      October 8, 2010 8:52 am

      Srikanth:

      Why do you assume that Hinduism has nothing better to offer than crook swamis and fake gurus?

      I believe that Hinduism has much better to offer than that presented by the greedy new age swami-s, or the propagandists of either the left or the right. In fact I believe that Hinduism is actually doing a fairly decent job of fulfilling the spiritual needs of its adherents. Look at this. You say that millions like you need these gurus and you are right. But “millions” is a very small figure for Hinduism – just about 0.1% of total population of Hindus! So 99.9% Hindus are doing just fine without these greedy gurus. Actually they should not be called ‘gurus’ at all. They are spiritual peddlers. They have lifted a few items from Hinduism and are selling them to foreigners, NRIs and urbanized rich Indians at huge profits.

      If you have been into AOL or any such organization for some time, you must have experienced many unethical practices – all justified in the name of some bigger cause. On the fringes, the magnitude may not be much, but they are definitely there. In a normal setting this would cause bullshit detector installed in your brain start buzzing. However, in a spiritual setting, where you go with a trusting mind the sound of the BS detector gets subdued until a time comes when it stops functioning. You can see this right here on these pages. People ask, “what is wrong in selling a technique one has invented?” without realizing that their guru himself does not agree with their version. The guru doesn’t want his buyers to believe that it a buy-and-sell transaction. He wants them to believe that he is a messiah even while selling his wares at inflated prices by making supernatural claims about his products.

      I believe that these greedy gurus are bringing a disgrace to Hinduism, a disgrace to the revered titles of ‘guru’, ‘swami’ and ‘rishi’ and a disgrace to all sacred Hindu symbols in their lust for fame, power and money. They should be weeded out and tried like a common criminal who cheats people. There isn’t much of a difference between the two.

      • smartclass permalink
        December 12, 2010 3:15 am

        The info about srisri’s education is totally baseless!
        I m totally shocked n amazed by hte amount of conspiracy done here!
        narrow minds usually finds out wrong in every good work!!
        They spk about the money ?! Have they ever felt the amount of money in giving free education in- schools run in rural areas??
        NO. NO. NO. they just spk nonsense!
        They should know that they cant do service with a begging bowl in their hand!
        I say 2 them get more deeper there’s something else yet 2 be realized off!!!
        I agree to srikanth that this negativity cant touch sri sri ‘s work !!!
        Hey! Dear frnds don’t go towards self destruction— just get awakened open ur eyes n seee The Truth!!

      • The Doctor permalink
        December 12, 2010 7:30 am

        @smartclass,

        Have you ever considered the possibility that your Guru might be complete fake, a swindler, a conman, and that his entire organization is set up for the purpose of sucking people in to surrender their time and moeny to him and his family?

        If you haven’t, I would start thinking about it seriously, because by all accounts, this seems to be what’s going on. And you my friend are a victim, just like so many other people. Take your time reading some of what is written here and unless you have been so brainswashed to beleive that your Guru is a complete saint who has never done anything wrong in his life and is beyond all criticism, which I suspect you have, then you will soon come to the realization that we are the ones already awake to the Truth and it is you and the majority of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar’s followers who are fast asleep living in a fantasy world.

        I sincerely hope you wake up soon, because from the tone of your post, you seem to be so far gone.

      • Smart Ass permalink
        December 12, 2010 4:18 pm

        @smartclass, you say “The info about srisri’s education is totally baseless!”

        Prove us wrong. If you produce a valid certificate of His graduation, the open question will be deleted from this site.

    • Peaceful Warrior permalink
      October 8, 2010 4:14 pm

      “Come what may nobody will remember thses negative blogs. What the world at large will remember is Sri Sir and his contribution to humanity.”

      Wishful thinking my friend. People very much remember maharishi’s lying and manipulations, even after his death – same will be true of RS. It will not be forgotten.

  9. freethinker permalink
    October 7, 2010 8:00 pm

    @Srikkanth
    “Come what may nobody will remember thses negative blogs. What the world at large will remember is Sri Sir and his contribution to humanity.”

    This would be great advice that you could give to RaviRavi/AOL, they act like they are worried about their existence.

  10. WhistleBlower permalink
    October 7, 2010 8:40 pm

    Well said Freethinker. Love your sharp wit.

    @ Srikkanth —SriSri’s contribution to humanity? Which contribution?! You mean contribution to his own bank account or his family’s bank accounts and businesses, stealing from the money which was meant for the charity? In couple of years time AOL/SriSri will be fully exposed by media and Govt. agencies and people like you have to find a proper job.

    By the way, when you say you have tremendously benefitted, can you please tell us how much you have benefitted financially and what is your position within AOL? Do you get extra bonus for writing in our blog or is part of your job description? And why don’t you write under your real name, like Swami Sadyojathah or Ewald did?

    • Yoga permalink
      October 7, 2010 10:15 pm

      WB – your reply is in bad taste. Your reply should address the issue. But with or without your knowledge you got into personal attacks.

      Many times, I have written on this blog that I have greatly benefited from the course. There is no doubt about it. That does not mean that someone is paying me to write this. Just like you are a free thinker…I am too. I have done many AOL courses and still have a balance. I do not go overboard over anything. Most of you went too far into AOL and returned with some kind of disappointment over whatever the issue may be and are now operating at other extreme.

      Talking about Govt and Indian Media both are influenced by leftists and foreign fundies. Every Hindu Guru is in trouble.

      • goneagain permalink
        October 8, 2010 12:14 am

        what about all the media in RaviRavi pockets. Couple of weeks back RaviRavi photo was added to tainted babas posts in itimes and it didn’t stay for couple of days – was polled down. Every other baba including ‘sai baba’ remains there. One can see how much RaviRavi can pull the strings.

        http://www.itimes.com/public/groups/Tainted-Babas/album/Tainted-Babas_27363

      • Yoga permalink
        October 8, 2010 11:39 pm

        Goneagain – do you think this blog owner is in SSRS pocket? Do you know that this blog owner had to remove certain posts? you can find fault with everything in this world. On web…there is so much bull. anyone can write anything about anyone. So…you pointing this out as a big deal is just pointless.

    • Srikkanth permalink
      October 8, 2010 6:34 am

      Now it is asking for too much. First of all, the blog owner including his/allies like you use psedo names. Hence you have lost all moral rights to ask me to write under my real name. This blog and most of the commnets supporitng it are epitomes of double standards. If you people are courageous and really feel that you have a mission to save the so called poor souls from being dragged into AOL net. Please dothese two things:
      1. Come out couagously with your real names.
      2. Come out with substantiated proofs that have some legal/ethical standing.
      3. Show at least your good and cultured upbringing by refraining from talking of others(that u dont agree with) in derogatory terms. Principle of free speech does not mean we should talk derogatorily about others.
      4. Your ulterior motives are clear from the fact that you are getting pecuniary advantage from this blog.
      5. If I make money by writing about my authentic exerience or in support of AOL some of the ex-AOLers must have got money when they were actively involved in AOL. You can verify from them. Taht will be more credible.

      • anonymous permalink
        October 8, 2010 7:07 am

        @Whistle blower @@ Srikkanth. Well said Srikkanth. I am reminded of a proverb in Hindi – Ulta chor kotwal ko dante- (It is like the thief scolding the policeman). The people who run or support this blog have no moral right to ask for the real name of others.

      • Peaceful Warrior permalink
        October 8, 2010 4:16 pm

        “Your ulterior motives are clear from the fact that you are getting pecuniary advantage from this blog.”

        For the record – this blog is not monetized. There are no ads.

        Even if it were – you can say the same thing for tehelka and other investigative journalists who do exposes to sell newspapers. Comeon – just address the prosecuters points directly instead of discrediting us or asking for names.

        By the way, you see our financial interest where there is none – yet you don’t see that RS has financial interest in keeping people dependent. Talk about double standards.

        Also AOL people need to stop asking for people’s names on anonymous blogs. It does not change a thing. Just address the points directly, instead of trying to discredit the people who are raising issues in AOL.

        “Show at least your good and cultured upbringing by refraining from talking of others(that u dont agree with) in derogatory terms. Principle of free speech does not mean we should talk derogatorily about others.”

        Do tell that to your fellow AOL friend harshal.

  11. harshal permalink
    October 7, 2010 10:39 pm

    @Doc— “Conversely, a great many of these are still allegations, so we need to wait until the truth comes out about them”

    Doesn’t this mean you do not have proofs? A line from your post ‘purpose of this blog’, under the section requests.

    Time to add domepezil to your domperidone.

  12. The Doctor permalink
    October 8, 2010 7:05 am

    @Harshal,

    It is evident that you have twisted my words here.

    There is a big difference between:

    most of these things are allegations with no solid proof”

    and:

    “Conversely, a great many of these are still allegations, so we need to wait until the truth comes out about them”.

    “A great many” in no way implies “most”.

    And I will stand by this: yes, a great many do still require proof, but at least as many if not more actually already have proof.

  13. harshal permalink
    October 8, 2010 8:01 am

    A ‘great many’, if at all ,is > than ‘most’. You are comparing two adjectives vs one. You are not even sure what gibberish you are typing. Those two lines you have typed in that article don’t make sense, especially since they follow each other. People like you are deprived of social recognition and acknowledgement and then the defence mechanism is to get these on anonymous blogs. You feel good that people read your post and then say ‘oh good post doc” , don’t you? I bet you are achieved nothing much in you life and doesn’t look like you will achieve anything.

    talking of twisting words, how you are your foolish friends here twist everything in AOL. I think someone needs to untwist your brains.

    Why is that post no longer a sticky post doc?

    • The Doctor permalink
      October 8, 2010 1:04 pm

      A ‘great many’, if at all ,is > than ‘most’. You are comparing two adjectives vs one. You are not even sure what gibberish you are typing.

      Really? So according to you, two adjectives now have “more power” than one adjective, irrespective of their meanings? The last time I checked, this isn’t how the English language works. 🙂

      Let’s compare the meanings of these in some detail:

      – “great many” implies a large yet indefinite number (see http://www.thefreedictionary.com/a+great+many)
      – “most” implies greatest in number, that is, a clear majority (see http://www.thefreedictionary.com/most)

      What I originally stated was that a large number of allegations have no proof, and I made no reference either implicitly or otherwise to any of the allegations that do have proof.

      What you have misquoted me as having stated is that the majority of allegations have no proof, and by stating this way you have implied that there is also a minority group of allegations, and these are the ones which do have proof. As I never originally made any reference to a majority, but rather to a large indefinite number of allegations, I did not imply any minority either. This clearly shows that you have blatantly tried to twist my words.

      Is this what happens to people when they practice Sudarshan Kriya over a prolonged period of time? Their logical mind becomes warped in this manner that you are demonstrating here, and they start to twist the words of others?

      You feel good that people read your post and then say ‘oh good post doc” , don’t you?

      Actually, I feel good most of my life, because that’s my nature. 😉 I especially feel good when I spend time with my friends, or watch a movie I really like, or listen to music that moves me, as well as a great many other things besides.

      As far is this blog is concerned, I don’t feel good when people write ‘oh good post Doc’, rather I feel good when people read any posts by any one of the many contributors here and realize the things written within resonate with them. I feel particularly good when they start to open their eyes and see Art of Living for what it really is, and then take steps to break free from its clutches, just as I did after I found these blogs, and just as a great many others are doing and will do in the future.

    • WarriorOfDharma permalink
      October 8, 2010 1:59 pm

      Harshal,

      Can we talk more subjectively here? I don’t think you are able to do any justice to the goodness that is remaining in AOL.

      With all respect to Guruji, I think there are issues in AOL that needs to be taken care.

      People here has valid concerns on where the money is going. If you have a lot of time, please do some research and find out from where Mr Narasimhan and Arvind got money to invest in Sumeru Real Estate and Inwinex Pharmaceuticals Ltd ???

      http://gujarati.economictimes.indiatimes.com/snapshots.cms?companyID=6568

      http://www.indiainfoline.com/Markets/Company/Background/Board-Meeting-AGM-EGM-Schedule/Inwinex-Pharmaceuticals-Ltd/531398

      See this comment, we suspect atleast 9.0 cr is being pumped to Inwinex – https://aolfree.wordpress.com/the-prosecutor/#comment-2239

      Why not come up with some meaningful replies?

    • Dayalu permalink
      October 8, 2010 7:24 pm

      This guy, Harshal, is pathetically disgusting.

  14. anon1 permalink
    October 8, 2010 10:12 am

    usually too, the guru is always happy but the students life is beset by bad luck. what the student doesnt know is that the guru is sucking his energy out from them for his own nefarious purposes.

  15. October 8, 2010 1:24 pm

    Slowly, Harshal is loosing his coolness and making personal attacks aggressively. So, knowledge points and smile is lost now. Good to see your real face.

  16. Harshal permalink
    October 8, 2010 1:44 pm

    @ doc

    Just in your earlier post you have said ” I am not going to waste my time or yours arguing with you. If you excuse the analogy, it is like arguing with someone who is drunk”

    You still keep arguing with me. What do you have this incessant desire to argue and prove your point? This inconsistency in your behaviours is an hallmark of drunkenness, however you are not drunk. You are just sick and you need help. Also, one suggestion for you-before you post your essays here get them corrected from an English teacher. when you read those two sentences in that order, it makes no sense. May be that’s why your post is not a sticky post anymore, or may be because its not derogatory enough for your buddies?

    @Ram: I have been making personal attacks right from the very beginning and I dont see any problem in doing that. Just that you are not in the line of fire yet.There is a saying in some language-it says- ‘if a scorpion comes to the place of worship just hit it with a broom, and dont think too much about it’

    • caipirinha permalink
      October 8, 2010 11:11 pm

      @ Harshal

      Why do AOL people always have to call their critics sick, mentally unstable or label them with all kind of personality disorders? This is bluntly defamatory and also a proof that you guys are not able to build a solid argument.

      I find Doc’s posts deep and thoughtful, highly eloquent and brilliantly developed.

      You are getting increasingly irritated and irrational. Relax!, and take a nice glass of Chardonnay to chill out.

      Salam my friend

    • October 9, 2010 6:23 am

      Your Guru has ‘forgiven’ the ‘attacker’ within couple of hours of the Bullet drama few months ago.
      and you want to kill the ‘Scorpio’ who is entering in ‘the place of worship’.
      Its violence, so the Noble Peace Prize Committee who decided to give Noble Prize to your Guru/Boss, changed the winner on last moment after reading your comments.

      Anyway sorry to hear that Your Boss miss the Noble Peace Prize this year too. But you can add now ‘Noble Peace Prize Nominee for 4 years’ . Better luck next time.

    • zhoro permalink
      October 9, 2010 1:03 pm

      Scorpions in a place of worship (or merchants in the temple) is exactly the term that applies to the leadership of AoL. Your efforts are misplaced.

  17. October 8, 2010 2:08 pm

    I found this post to reinforce the magical thinking around a guru. Just because someone is very charismatic and has great influence on people doesn’t mean he/she is giving or receiving energy in some magical, tantric way. I don’t think Sri Sri is sucking energy from his devotees in any mystical way. Nor do think he was able to give energy in any mystical way. I think we underestimate the power of our own minds. When we are swept up in love and devotion that gives one great surges of energy. When we are filled with doubt and confusion we are drained of energy. For many of us, we were swept up in love and devotion around Sri Sri and were filled with energy. We floated on it for days. Its just like falling in love. It is a wonderful experience. I don’t think there is anything mystical or subversive going on. Sri Sri is surrounded by people who love him. Of course he is going to get energy from that. When I got married and was surrounded by people loving me, I was high as a kite and filled with incredible energy.

    Lets demystify the guru. Lets not add to his supposed mystical powers by thinking that he is underhandedly stealing our energy. Yes, incredible energy happens around him, but so does incredible energy happen around a great church service or even a good sports game. When people are together, we make a lot of energy. When people are together filled with love and devotion the energy can be amazing. It has nothing to do with a guru and everything to do with us and the power of being human. When I am out of sync with a group I don’t participate with the flow of energy. I can even find it debilitating because I am left out. That is a normal response not being a part of a group. When I started doubting Sri Sri, I didn’t find the satsangs all that powerful anymore. I didn’t sync up with the group, so I felt a power loss. It wasn’t Sri Sri stealing anything from me. He is not that powerful.

    • Doreen permalink
      October 8, 2010 8:32 pm

      Thank you for your articulate comment. I agree completely.

    • Independent Observer permalink
      October 9, 2010 2:42 am

      Extremely well written, simple and concise. Magic happens when people get together in love and service. The power is within. However, this beautiful collective energy is being manipulated to suit just a few people. The AOL system propagates many many stories (Guru Stories to be precise) that take an average devotee from this simple truth thats it is all within. A dependency is created whereby its not energy on demand or on tap, but a certain fear is introduced. Since you have been through this high, you would like to have it again. Now all they do is plant you a story that what makes it happen for you is because you are around GOD, its the Grace, only in the advance course do such things happen……and all this BS.

      When something works in a certain way, there could be a 1000 explanations as to why it works this way. However, we all attach on to the first and most immediate explanation that works well for us in terms of explaining the HOWs of it and we do not bother to explore or test the other 999 potential explanations. AOL exploits (literally) this tremendously.

      99% of all the exploitation happens through good hearted teachers and volunteers (Unwittingly though)…….all they are doing it passing it on….all these hand me downs….beware of this ….While the intent is fine….they want others to have the same good experience that they are having, the content/message/method is unverified and incomplete. However, having said this is the very GOODNESS in AOL and among the everage heart still in AOL, that needs to be preserved, is precious and scared.

      But, there are a few at the top who have much more knowhow and who use this manipulation method deliberately and wantonly to exploit this energy for selfish purposes.

      Now, many teachers and volunteers have waken up and are paying heed to all these doubts are beginning to niggle at them. My advice to them is as follows. Wait…don’t do anything. Nothing will happen if you miss a days Saadhana or a Satsang…or an advance course. It is your voice of reason, self preservation and genuine quest for the truth that raises these questions and doubts within you. To voice them and be open about them to your own self is courage and your personal INTEGRITY. If you miss out on this, then you are living your life on other’s terms and rules (A true Football). Having your intellect aid you is beneficial, ….it helps you to assert who you truly are as an individual. Why should you compromise on this….after all it is you. So, take some time off. When in doubt don’t do ANYTHING. Take a pillow and just go and sleep (Sri Sri himself said that). If you believe in your praying, please pray to your higher self to guide you. From your own silence the answers that are right for you will emerge. But do not be impatient to do something. Don’t give yourself deadlines. Be prepared to do nothing until the confusion goes away completely. You owe it to yourself. This is just like the quicksand situation, when stuck, the more you try to escape the deeper you will sink in. So, become totally still, silent and extra aware of everything that is happening around you. Help is coming…..the divine is truly behind you. If at this juncture, the question which divine are we talking about ? ha ha hits you does it not ?…….please know that this is the ultimate fun game / treasure hunt that existence is playing on us, with us and through us.

      Enjoy

      • Anonymous permalink
        October 10, 2010 4:40 pm

        Amazing comment, very helpful in my present waking up situation which is quite painful. It´s hard to see evrything which you loved break down…

  18. Peaceful Warrior permalink
    October 8, 2010 4:05 pm

    The emperor has no clothes. Just wake up and see.

  19. ladyclassact permalink
    October 8, 2010 6:42 pm

    Today, the court verdict of a BPO female employee named Pratibha Murthy from Bangalore who was brutally raped and murdered was announced. The victim’s mother – a middle class, aging lady – let out a heart wrenching cry for justice and for the law to not spare the murderer in front of the media. Bhanumathi Narasimhan considers herself a woman’s right activist with all her gluttonous clamoring for media attention, funds and charity to the good-for-nothing AOL women’s conference lives in the adjacent neighborhood to the victim’s family. She claims to empower women and fight oppression against them. She has not raised one single word of support for Pratibha’s mom who been fighting a lonely battle for the past five years.

    What is Ms. Bhanumathi doing to support the victim’s family? Is she so lost in the lofty confines of money, power, luxury and completely cut off from the ground realities that women of the world face today: rape, sexual abuse, violence, harassment, pedophilia, trafficking of young girls, molestation, honour killings – the list is endless. Is Ms. Bhanu and her bacchanalian tribe of glamour mongering, “famewhoring” dirty rich women with their bulging midriffs so constipated with their spiritual shit even sensitized to such issues that are affecting the working class women of today?

    Her lifestyle and her spiritually soiled mind with her dead conscience is solely suited for splurging on spiritual orgies by flashing and flaunting her ostentatious display of saris, purses and jewelery and time well-spent in grabbing more riches and glory. Amidst all her fanfare and indulgence, can’t she spare a little time in genuinely fighting for women’s justice? Shame on her for turning such a blind eye to the injustices of the working class women. The dirty stench from the rich ladies of the AOL who also take pride in harassing middle class women themselves in the organization is stinking to its your own glory.

  20. Answer needed permalink
    October 8, 2010 7:22 pm

    Can any “Jai Gurudev” answer about inwinex and sri sumeru realty ? Where does Aravind Varchaswi (SSRS nephew) and Mr. Narasimhan (SSRS BIL / Bhanu husband) make all the money from ?

    People do seva, sacrifice their time, money and some times life for AOL. Don’t the same rules apply to these SSRS realtives ?

    You(AOL course takers / Volunteers) sacrifice…I enjoy …… is this where things are headed ?

  21. Harshal Exposed permalink
    October 8, 2010 11:19 pm

    EDIT: Original deleted.

    [Original comment indicated that Harshal was NOT Harshal Jadhav, however speculated identity has been removed as it is an invasion of privacy.]

    • goneagain permalink
      October 9, 2010 4:23 am

      EDIT: DELETED

      Not sure if he is the same Harshal posts here. But one thing for sure is, he is also very much involved in AOL.

      Meet “swami harshal”

      EDIT: DELETED

      • zhoro permalink
        October 9, 2010 1:18 pm

        I don’t think it is appropriate to post personal pictures here. My (apparently ex) buddy Harsh Al may be acting as a ruffian here, but he is still a good guy and doesn’t deserve to be ridiculed.

      • October 9, 2010 1:31 pm

        In case he is not the harshal – it’s a massive invasion of privacy – something the guy does not deserve just for having the name harshal and being in AOL. I think it’s best not to be a detective in this case.

    • Yoga permalink
      October 10, 2010 2:33 am

      Whoever you are, even if you found who Harshal, it is unfair to post his last name or first name or other identities. The other day,AOL teachers phone number and email id was posted here. It does not matter who Harshal is…can you address the issue and leave the person alone?

      • The Doctor permalink
        October 10, 2010 6:53 am

        Agreed, and removed accordingly.

  22. The Doctor permalink
    October 9, 2010 6:37 am

    @Harshal,

    You still keep arguing with me.

    I could be arguing in my spare time. 😉

    In all honesty, I really wasn’t going to argue with you, but then I noticed you did something which went some way towards reinforcing a point I was making in this post here: by twisting my words in the way you clearly have, you lied.

    Up until now, you have more than adequately demonstrated abuse, lack of intergrity, and that you behave in a very cult like manner, exhibiting signs of brainwashing. But in this post you have now gone further towards reinforcing another of the points that I stated were the core issues in Art of Living, dishonesty. If you can somehow demonstrate corruption here, and I’m sure you can find a way, you’ll then have a full house!

    Harshal, everything you have done on this blog since you came on has reeked of desperation, and instead of answering a single point that has been mentioned across the blog posts, you have gone out of your way to try and attack most people here, including I might add people on your side!!! You are portraying an extremely ugly picture of Art of Living, showing dark side that has been hinted at throughout these posts but you are happily verifying it here and now.

    You persist in evading answering any question, because I know as well as you do that you can’t, because you realize there is so much truth here, and you are so worried about these things getting out that the only thing you know how to do is to attack the posters and hope this will in some way make all of this go away. Let me tell you right now, it won’t do that.

    In your desperation, you have gone out of your way to try and find fault in a two sentences I have posted, and then insinuated that because these two sentences didn’t make sense, Skywalker made the post un-sticky!!! Listen to yourself talking here, and tell me if these are really the are the words that a well-balanced human being would use, or if they are the words of a desperate man who is scared that his world is about to collapse and he’s trying everything he can to save it.

    Well, as I’ve mentioned so many times before, you’re actually doing the blog a huge service by posting in this way. You are validating a great many things that have been said here, and you are reinforcing what I wrote about the core issuses in Art of Living.

    What I find really ironic is that when I first posted on this blog, my opening was entitled Can We Help To Save The Art of Living and I was very sincere about that. Yet here you are, someone who is a teacher in Art of Living and who should know how to act like one, trying to destroy Art of Living!!

    Pat yourself on the back Harshal, you’re doing a good job.

  23. harshal permalink
    October 9, 2010 10:57 am

    @doc: I am negating everything you have said in the above post by letting you know that I am not a AOL teacher. . You are assuming things and making up your own world, where you see me as a AOL teacher.I am seriously advising you to get some psychiatric help.

    Skywalker or whoever owns the blog, made that post un-sticky because it doesn’t serve the purpose of his blog which is to defame AOL. That doesn’t rule out the fact that your posts are like intellectual enemas.

    • The Doctor permalink
      October 9, 2010 7:21 pm

      @Harshal,

      I stand corrected for assuming you are teacher, consider that withdrawn, and on the assumption that you are the same Doctor Harshal mentioned in the above post, I’ve also removed the links to all of your personal pages.

      @Zhoro made an interesting comment about you, that you are a good guy, and I’m going to take his word for it here because given your behaviour since the start, no one who has seen your posts would say that unless they knew you well enough and they really meant it.

      So going on the assumption you are a good guy, please can you do yourself a huge favour and at least behave in this way on this blog? I would really appreciate it if you had a point of view to make or an argument to just put it forward in a civilized manner so we can discuss it here?

      I also want to assure you, this blog is not about defaming SSRS / AoL, although because of its free speech policy, some people may use it in that way. This cannot be avoided, and it’s something we have to accept. I want you to know, I have no intention of defaming anyone, and I am not even completley “anti” AoL. I have already acknowledged numerous times that I received tremendous benefits from the practices and the courses, and I know a great many other people that have too. So to be completely anti-AoL would also mean I am anti these things I have just mentioned, which is wrong.

      But I am definitely against dishonesty, lack of integrity, abuse, corruption and brainwashing. And at this point in time I am very much convinced that all of these take place in AoL apart from corruption, for which there is insufficient evidence to support this claim.

      Now, given all the positive things I have written so far about my experiences with AoL, the realizations that I have come to since finding these blogs have deeply sadened me. Initially like you I was very much against all the things I read, but slowly over time I saw things that were written which I had experienced first hand, and the more of these things I saw, the more I realized there was actually more than a modicum of truth in these blogs.

      If you really want to help Sri Sri, AoL and any sincere seekers who you think will benefit from AoL in the future, I would invite you to go through some of the things you have seen written here and try and refute them in whatever way you can. That is if you really love AoL and Sri Sri and you want to do a service to them. I stand by what I said before, so far all your efforts here have been against them, irrespective of whether you are a teacher or not. Had you been a teacher, it would have obviously looked a lot worse, but just like WarriorOfDharma said above, even acting the way you are now you really aren’t doing any justice to the goodness left in AoL.

      I’ve pretty much said everything I want to say here, so I’ll leave it up to you to decide how you want to present yourself here in the future.

      • Observer permalink
        October 10, 2010 10:49 am

        But, Harshal is not here to ‘behave well’ or answer any queries. He has already made up his mind (i.e., Aol has made up his mind for him) that this blog is full of ‘kutarka’ and he has to fight it only by his own kutarka. I ve heard him say so here as well, more than once…

    • Skywalker permalink*
      October 9, 2010 10:56 pm

      @Harshal:
      “Skywalker or whoever owns the blog, made that post un-sticky because it doesn’t serve the purpose of his blog which is to defame AOL.”
      I made the post sticky precisely because it serves the purpose of this blog, which is to present reasonable criticism of AOL without resorting to defamation.
      I made the post unsticky because other posts deserve to be read also. Still, the post is so good I have added it to “recommended posts”.

  24. anon1 permalink
    October 9, 2010 1:00 pm

    dw said “I found this post to reinforce the magical thinking around a guru.”

    you are partially correct. there is some magical thinking but by there very definition gurus do have supernatural powers. and therfore i dont think it is magical thinking to think they could not use them for good or bad.

    it is a very fact that coming in to contact with some gurus do drain your vital energies. these ppl know how to do it. if you have not encountered any bad luck with your guru, then you are very very lucky, he must be the true guru then and i suggest you stay with him.

    • October 9, 2010 2:50 pm

      You said, “by there very definition gurus do have supernatural powers.” I think this is part of the mythology. I haven’t seen supernatural powers around Sri Sri and I spent a lot of personal time with him. I would see how people claimed he did miraculous things and I was there and didn’t see any ‘miraculous’ things happening. Don’t get me wrong, I do think really amazing stuff can happen around a guru, but I don’t think the guru is controlling it. I think it is our collective faith and devotion that can do some pretty neat stuff. Would I call it supernatural or miraculous? No. I never saw the kind of miracles that are unexplainable from a reasonable point of view, like turning water into wine, or levitating, or instantaneous healings. They were more of the type like synchronicities or powerful personal transformations. All explainable through the power of personal belief and devotion.

      • WhistleBlower permalink
        October 10, 2010 12:13 am

        I totally agree with DW. In all my years with AOL/RS I never saw anything from RS pointing to any supernatural power on his part. However, I heard many times from RS and his sister and his lackeys talking about/claiming RS has super natural powers, that he can read minds, he can heal, he can bring people back from death, he can save them from car accidents, etc…you name it.

        Many times in satsang he would ask devotees with any pain to stand up and he would pretend that he is healing them. Then he would ask “is your pain gone”?
        Most devotees would say yes, lest they be accused of not having enough faith in the guru. If someone would persistently answer No, Ravi would simply move to the next person! I thought this was a cheap show, like that of Sai Baba pretending he can materialize things.

        As I said in my post, I don’t believe RS has any power, more than what his gullible followers surrender to him. Even if someone experienced any healing , it would be due to their own faith and devotion and actions. In AOL, all healings were attributed to RS and there was no place to discuss why all these teachers and Ravi himself were sick all the time, needing medical attention. These were kept hush-hush or they would give some feeble excuses.

        I know from my own personal experience that Ravi has no supernatural power, but he likes to portray that he does. That makes him a charlatan in my eyes.

  25. anon1 permalink
    October 9, 2010 4:10 pm

    well i think i’ll agree to disagree. i think gurus do have supernatural powers. there is such a thing as siddhis and the rest.
    our own devotion and collective faith do play a part, as you say but the guru has a part to play to. he has mastery over the unseen.
    its wise to be cautious but to deny it completely is folly.

    as i said it comes across to me that you have indeed been very lucky with your choice of guru that you have not experienced any adverse effects.

    but if a guru has a part to play, you can bet on it, he’s playing it.
    but if you or others dig deeper you will find countless stories of people who havent been as lucky as you are. they just havent caught on who is behind it.

    so i think the article that whistleblower has printed has alot of truth in it. anyway that was my two cents worth and now i’ll get off my soapbox.

  26. WhistleBlower permalink
    October 9, 2010 10:04 pm

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/the-maharishi-years-the_b_86412.html

    The Maharishi Years – The Untold Story: Recollections of a Former Disciple
    Posted February 13, 2008 | 10:55 AM (EST)

    August 1, 1991 saw the publication of my book, Perfect Health, a popular guide to Ayurveda that came at the height of my involvement with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Although I had been meditating less than a decade in comparison with TM meditators who went back to the ’60s, my association with Maharishi quickly became personal. He felt comfortable around other Indians and had a special regard for trained scientists and physicians. In return I had a deep fascination with enlightenment and the almost supernatural status of gurus. A few days before the book’s publication, I was in Fairfield, Iowa, to participate in a meditation course. Maharishi was supposed to address the assembly on speaker phone from India, but the phone call didn’t come through at the appointed time. We all dispersed.
    A couple of hours later when I was in meditation I had a vision of Maharishi lying in a hospital bed with intravenous tubes in his body breathing on a respirator. I quickly got out of the meditation and phoned my parents in New Delhi. My mother picked up the phone and told me that Maharishi was very sick. “They think he’s been poisoned. Come quickly,” she said. I asked to speak to my father, who was a cardiologist. She said, “Your father isn’t here. He’s taking care of Maharishi.” This began a journey that took me to the very heart of who the guru is and who he is expected to be. The two can be in jarring opposition.
    I immediately left Fairfield for Chicago, where a wealthy TM donor had been kind enough to charter a plane for me. When I arrived in Delhi, it was past midnight. I first went home. My father was not there, and my mother told me he was still with Maharishi in a house in Golflinks, a private reserve in the city. One room had been converted into an intensive care unit presided over by my father and other doctors. I arrived at the house at 2:00 am, and when I entered the makeshift ICU I saw Maharishi lying unconscious in a bed with IV tubes and a respirator just as I had foreseen. My father informed me darkly that after drinking a glass of orange juice given to him by “a foreign disciple,” Maharishi had suffered severe abdominal pain and inflammation of the pancreas, along with kidney failure followed by a heart attack. Poisoning was suspected. Over the next few days Maharishi’s condition worsened. The pancreas and kidney functions continued to deteriorate, and his heart didn’t improve. My father was of the opinion that Maharishi should be taken to England for a course of kidney dialysis. The Indian TM organization, centered around Maharishi’s nephews, Prakash and Anand Shrivastava, were adamant that no one in the movement should find out that Maharishi was grievously ill. The rationale was that his followers would panic and lose faith.
    I found myself torn, because Maharishi had long presented himself as being far from the typical Hindu guru. He did not assert his own divinity. He credited his entire career to his own master, Guru Dev. He seemed indifferent to the cult of personality and the aura of superstition surrounding gurus, which includes the notion that they have perfect control over mind and body and hold the secret of immortality. But deeper than that, Maharishi wasn’t a religious figure. Although he had taken vows as a monk, he brought a technique to the West, Transcendental Meditation, that was entirely secular and even scientific. Indeed, his lasting memory will probably be that he convinced Westerners of the physical and mental benefits of a purely mechanical non-religious approach to consciousness. I was troubled that his falling ill had to be hidden essentially to preserve the image of a superhuman being who couldn’t get sick like mere mortals.
    There was one person the Indian inner circle chose to trust, however. He was Neil Paterson, a Canadian who had been chosen by Maharishi as chief spokesman and de facto head of the movement. Neil and I flew to England and made arrangements for Maharishi to be admitted to a private hospital on Harley Street. My father and two other doctors chartered a plane and brought Maharishi to London. I remember standing outside the London Heart Hospital, watching an ambulance navigate the snarled traffic, sirens wailing. Just before it arrived on the hospital’s doorstep, one of the accompanying doctors ran up with the news that Maharishi had suddenly died. I rushed to the ambulance, picking Maharishi’s body up — he was frail and light by this time – and carrying him in my arms through London traffic.
    I laid him on the floor inside the hospital’s doors and called for a cardio assist. Within minutes he was revived and rushed to intensive care on a respirator and fitted with a pacemaker that took over his heartbeat. The attending physician felt that Maharishi was clinically dead. My father suggested that we keep him on life support, however, until the family gave permission to take him off. As fate would have it, after 24 to 36 hours the attending informed us that Maharishi was recovering miraculously. His kidney function was returning to normal, his heart was beating independent of the pacemaker, and he had started to breathe on his own. Within a few days he was sitting up in bed, drinking milk with honey. The doctor could not explain this recovery; everyone in the hospital, including his nurses, were awestruck, not just by the turn-around but by his presence, which induced a sense of peace in anyone who came near.
    Let me pause here to reflect on the strange juxtapositions at work. I genuinely felt in the midst of the crisis that I was fulfilling a purpose beyond myself. A series of circumstances had brought me to the very moment when someone had to intervene to save Maharishi’s life, and it was as if the universe had conspired to carry me to that moment. At the same time, he exhibited both the all-too-human qualities found in every holy man and other qualities one associates with the superhuman. I had the distinct sensation of standing on the border between two worlds, or should one say two versions of the human condition? It was easy to believe that other disciples in another time felt much the same in the presence of Jesus or Buddha.
    Maharishi’s complete recovery happened slowly. There was a point where the doctor informed us that he had severe anemia and needed a blood transfusion. When they typed and cross-matched Maharishi’s blood, I turned out to be the only match – this, of course, only increased my sense of being a participant in a drama shaped by forces outside myself. When he was informed about the situation, however, Maharishi refused to accept my blood but would give no reason. Considering that much had been made of how he had studied physics in college and had insisted on the scientific validity of TM, this was a baffling decision. Then I had a sudden insight. He didn’t want my blood because he didn’t want my karma. After all, I had been a smoker, had indulged in alcohol and sex and had even experimented with LSD years before. I went to Maharishi and confronted him with my realization. I asked if he believed that karma could be transmitted in the blood. He responded reluctantly, “That’s true.” I told him that red blood cells do not have a nucleus and therefore contain no DNA. Without genetic information my blood would only be giving him the hemoglobin he needed without karmic infection. At first he was suspicious, but I had the hematologist explain to him that memory and information is not transferred through a red blood transfusion. Eventually he accepted my blood. As he regained strength, we removed him from the hospital, and he was brought to a London hotel to continue recuperating.
    This began a period of increased intimacy between us. We would go for long walks in Hyde Park, which felt strange given the complete blackout of news to the TM movement, which was told that Maharishi had decided to go into silence for the time being. On one occasion, a stranger ran up to us in the park and asked, “Aren’t you the guru of the Beatles?” My wife Rita, who had joined us that day, quickly interjected, “He’s my father-in-law. Please leave him alone.” In the end we felt that staying in London risked unnecessary publicity. So Maharishi was moved to a country home in the southwest of England where I spent hours personally nursing him. He took the occasion to give me deep insight and knowledge about Vedanta. He also gave me advanced meditation techniques. Those languid weeks and months alone with Maharishi, except for the servants who cooked and served his meals, were the most precious days of my life. I grew very fond of him and he evoked a love in me that I had never experienced before. In turn, I realized that he was also getting fond of me. We discussed just about every topic in the world from politics (on which he had very strong opinions) to human relationships (which he thought were full of melodrama) to the nature of consciousness (his favorite subject). Yet I still remained on the cusp of an uneasy truce between the physical frailty of an old man who at times could be fretful and worried and a guru whose mortality was like an admission of imperfection.
    In all, Maharishi was out of circulation for almost a year; few in the TM movement knew where he was, and almost no one was willing to concede that he had been sick. After he was fully recovered we flew him via helicopter back to his chosen residence, which wasn’t in either India or the U.S. but the obscure village of Vlodrop in Holland. It would be impossible to calculate how many disciples and even casual TM meditators would have given anything for personal time with Maharishi. Because of his mass appeal and his undeniable presence, there were many who cherished a moment with him as the most precious in their lives. Yet I was growing increasingly disturbed by contradictions I couldn’t reconcile.
    Maharishi had spent decades traveling the globe to promote TM; now he remained permanently in Vlodrop while I was sent, as one of his main emissaries, on a routine of almost constant jet travel. He aimed at ever-increasing expansion. Eastern Europe and the Soviet bloc were opened up to meditation. Gradually so was the Islamic world, which resisted TM in large part because the initiation ceremony included a picture of Maharishi’s teacher sitting on an altar, which went against the Muslim prohibition over depicting God or holy men. Everywhere I went I was given the respect accorded to my guru, bringing with it a level of pomp and ceremony that verged on veneration. Not only did this make me uncomfortable personally, but I wondered why Maharishi, the first “modern” guru, allowed and encouraged it. It seemed inconsistent with Vedanta’s central theme that the material world is illusion, not to mention the freedom from materialism that is expected of one who is enlightened.
    Ironically, the respect shown to me in his name came to be my undoing. Maharishi started to give me the perception (perhaps that was my own projection) that he felt I was competing with him in a spiritual popularity contest. On more than one occasion, he casually mentioned that I was seeking adulation for myself. This was odd considering that he had been the one who thrust me forward in the first place, and who insisted on piling tributes on me that I had no choice but to accept whatever my embarrassment. The situation came to a head. In July, 1993, during the celebration of Guru Purnima, I went to see Maharishi in his private rooms to pay my respects. It was close to midnight after all the day’s public ceremonies had ended. Rita and I entered the room in near darkness. Besides Maharishi, the only person present was a TM higher up, Benny Feldman, who kept silent as Maharishi said, “People are telling me that you are competing with me.”
    At that point I had only heard indirect reports about his displeasure; this was the first time, in fact, that Maharishi had shown anything but the highest trust in me. It was true that after his medical crisis he refused to discuss his health and took pains to indicate that where once I had been his physician, now I was to consider myself in the former position of disciple. Actually, I admired him for this. It would have been impertinent for me to take any other role. To be in the presence of someone like Maharishi is to realize an immense gulf in consciousness. His physical status continued to be amazingly strong considering what he had been through.
    Here he was now, in my eyes, playing the part of an irascible, jealous old man whose pride had been hurt. For my part, I was dismayed that he might believe the rumors. Then he made a demand. “I want you to stop traveling and live here at the ashram with me.” He also wanted me to stop writing books. After delivering what amounted to an ultimatum, I was given twenty-four hours to make up my mind.
    It was a critical moment. Then and there I had to consider the entirety of the guru-disciple relationship. To anyone outside India, much misunderstanding surrounds the whole issue of taking on an enlightened teacher. To begin with, there is a Western predisposition to doubt that enlightenment could be real except as personified in Buddha or a limited number of saints and sages who existed centuries ago. There is also a sense in the West that following a guru is tantamount to surrendering your personal identity, your bank account, and your dignity. None of these issues concerned me, however. In the role of guru Maharishi was authentic, dignified, respectful, and accepting. In addition, he was personally lovable and a joy to be around (even if one had to suffer patiently through discourses that lasted many hours and that circled around the same basic points.) The dilemma I faced was more fundamental: Can a real guru be unfair, jealous, biased, and ultimately manipulative?
    For a devotee, the answer is unquestionably yes. The role of a disciple isn’t to question a guru, but the exact opposite: Whatever the guru says, however strange, capricious, or unfair, is taken to be truth. The disciple’s role is to accommodate to the truth, and if it takes struggle and “ego death” to do that, the spiritual fruits of obedience are well worth it. A guru speaks for God and pure consciousness; therefore, his words are a direct communication from Brahman, who knows us better than we know ourselves. In essence the guru is like a superhuman parent who guides our steps until we can walk on our own. Was Maharishi doing that to me?
    I never found out, because practical considerations loomed large at that moment. I had a family with children in school, a wife who decidedly did not want to live an ashram life, and no visible means of support if I stopped producing books and giving lectures. I told Maharishi that I didn’t need twenty-four hours to make my decision. I would leave immediately and not return. With some surprise he asked me why. I told him that I had no ambitions to be a guru myself – the very idea appalled me. I was dismayed that he would believe such rumors. It was beyond my imagination for anyone to compare me to him or that I would have the gall to do the same.
    It’s only after his death that I feel free to divulge this final parting of ways. To outsiders it will seem like a tempest in a teapot, but in my leaving the TM movement it was widely rumored that I wanted to be the guru of my own movement. While the media casually refers to any spokesperson from the East as a guru, but that doesn’t diminish the fact that Maharishi actually was a guru and great Rishi of the Vedic tradition, while I am a doctor who loved the philosophy of Vedanta and also loved articulating it for the man on the street. I said goodbye to Maharishi, took Rita’s hand, and walked away. We drove from Vlodrop to Amsterdam in the middle of the night and took a plane to Boston. When we arrived home in Lincoln, Massachusetts, the phone was ringing. A contrite and forgiving Maharishi was on the line. He said, “You are my son, you will inherit all that I have created. Come back and all will be yours.”
    I replied that I didn’t want what he was offering. I loved the knowledge of Vedanta and wanted to devote myself to it. By the end of the conversation, however, I relented and told him that I would think about it. In the ensuing months I was approached by medical institutions and universities to introduce Ayurveda and TM as part of their programs. However, when I contacted Maharishi and the movement with these promising prospects I was told that I shouldn’t pursue these offers. At the same time decisions were made to raise the cost of TM astronomically, putting it out of reach for ordinary people. On January 12, 1994 I went back to Vlodrop for the annual New Year’s celebration and told Maharishi that I was leaving permanently. I expressed my immeasurable gratitude to him and told him that I would love him forever. When we parted, he said, “Whatever you do will be the right decision for you. I will love you, but I will also be indifferent to you from now on.”
    At first his being indifferent felt very hurtful, but then I realized that Maharishi was offering love with detachment, the mark of a great sage. I remembered one of his favorite remarks, which he once directed to me: “I love you, but it’s none of your business.” What followed for me was the arc of a public career that became more acceptable to the outside world once I was no longer aligned with a guru. In some people’s eyes I dropped Maharishi in order to launch myself. This perception has led to recriminations in the TM movement. One is faced with the sad spectacle of people striving to gain enlightenment while at the same vilifying anyone who dares to stray from the fold. Nothing I did after leaving Maharishi was premeditated. I later visited the Shankaracharya of Jyotir Math and told him about my situation. His response was sympathetic: he told me that I remained an exponent of Vedanta for the West and was therefore true to the tradition.
    I believe that Maharishi would have been the first to agree. It’s not possible to stray from the one reality, and if Maharishi the personality couldn’t give his blessing, at a deeper level Maharishi the guru was doing his job of coaxing consciousness to expand. There was no way for me to reconcile the two opposites back then, but I have come to realize that I never needed to. All opposites are reconciled in unity consciousness, the state that Maharishi was in and the state I aspire to every day.

  27. Bling Bling permalink
    October 9, 2010 10:51 pm

    @Whistleblower

    You seem hard at work 🙂 Constantly searching and posting articles from all over the Internet… Do you remember the four-month AOL hiatus on risky driving and partying is coming to an end? Do you want to warn people to watch out for AOLers getting out of hand at night ?

    AOL and TM so similar, someone should create a table

    The Indian TM organization, centered around Maharishi’s nephews, Ajay Prakash and Anand Shrivastava,

    the nephews,

    In addition, he was personally lovable and a joy to be around (even if one had to suffer patiently through discourses that lasted many hours and that circled around the same basic points.)

    the cost,

    At the same time decisions were made to raise the cost of TM astronomically, putting it out of reach for ordinary people.

  28. Svetana permalink
    October 10, 2010 12:29 am

    @ DW
    “I think this is part of the mythology. I haven’t seen supernatural powers around Sri Sri and I spent a lot of personal time with him.”

    Supernatural powers or whatever they may be called cannot be seen, but can only be experienced if you are sensitive to them. You cannot deny existence of certain things just because you personally did not have physical experience with them.

    • zhoro permalink
      October 10, 2010 1:01 am

      That is true only on some level of understanding. The reality of these phenomena cannot be examined separately from the reality of the perceiving entity. According to the scriptures, the siddhi are as real as a dream. The dream is real only to the dreaming consciousness. It isn’t real to the consciousness that is awake.

  29. Svetana permalink
    October 10, 2010 3:54 am

    @ zhoro

    “The dream is real only to the dreaming consciousness. It isn’t real to the consciousness that is awake.”

    And this awakening is what spiritual quest is about, isn’t it?

    • zhoro permalink
      October 10, 2010 12:51 pm

      That’s what the quest is about, but as long as there is a quest, there is a distance implied and a postponement. It is ever present as the reality upon which all phenomena manifest and can be realized at any moment when attention is withdrawn from the phenomena into the source that perceives them until no such duality of perceiver and perceived remains.

  30. October 10, 2010 12:33 pm

    I recently read a book called “The Unknowing Sage”. It was written many years ago by a guru. In it he tells an interesting story of how he was caught up in a war zone and was praying to his guru to lead him to safety. His guru appeared to him and lead him to safety. While he was traveling back to India to thank his guru, he met up with some of his disciples. His disciples where also caught up in a war zone (I think it was the partitioning of India) and prayed to him. They said that he appeared to them and lead them out of the war zone safely. From his side he knew nothing about leading his disciples out of any war zone. In fact, he thought this was a very strange phenomenon. So he started to ask and inquire of other gurus if they knew of the miracles that were attributed to them. Many of them honestly said, ‘No’. They didn’t knowingly do the miracles attributed to them. But some of the gurus asked him to keep this quiet so that their disciples wouldn’t lose faith. With Sri Sri, I think this is what is going on much of the time. If miraculous things happen around him, he doesn’t know anything about them. That is why, I think it is our faith and devotion that cause the amazing experiences around him, not his power,

    • Anonymous permalink
      October 10, 2010 5:17 pm

      Divine appears in whatever form we pray to him. To say it’s our faith is pure folly – it is divine’s grace which manifests itself in our life.

      • WhistleBlower permalink
        October 10, 2010 9:16 pm

        I don’t see any contradiction between your statement and what DW says. What me, DW and many ex-teachers have experienced and know is that Ravi is not God/Divine/supreme being (and all other things he claims to be) and has no superpower or grace to bestow on anyone!

        Indeed all RS lackeys know this even though they speak otherwise in Public and at courses. If they get sick they will go to a doctor, they won’t go to Sad Swami or Ravi or any of his blessers to get a blessing. If Bhanu Didi gets sick she will go to doctor, not to his brother or Ashram Ayuverdic clinic!

    • Albert permalink
      October 11, 2010 7:32 am

      This is written as a comment under “The Purpose of These Blogs” :

      If you search … true guru is like Baba Faqir Chand.

      “This is the hard fact: the plain truth does not help in establishing centers; it does not increase the number of followers. But how is anyone to understand it?” – Baba Faqir Chand

      Truth revealed

      Baba Faqir’s devotees went to him as devotees always have done in India and elsewhere with following message:
      Dear Guru Ji! I was in a very dangerous situation. But then suddenly you materialized in front of me and saved me!
      Up to now most Gurus would smile and nod and say that they indeed were there to save the devotee. A happy devotee would after this event donate a lot of money to the Gurus ashram.

      Now people also started come to Baba Faqir with the same experiences. But His answer would be a shock to the believer:
      I was not there saving you. I have no knowledge of the scene you refer to. Actually it is your own strong faith and inner power that has materialized in my form to save you!

      This message was honest – but not good for ashram-business. Faqir’s Ashram went bankrupt
      short after he revealed this truth.

  31. anon1 permalink
    October 10, 2010 12:35 pm

    i agree with svetana, it seems to be you two dw and whistle blower have been incredibly lucky with your own gurus and that you didnt expereince any negative reactions, but just because you both didnt doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

  32. anon1 permalink
    October 10, 2010 1:10 pm

    zhoro ” According to the scriptures, the siddhi are as real as a dream. The dream is real only to the dreaming consciousness. It isn’t real to the consciousness that is awake.”

    sure the siddhis are a manifestation of another dreaming consciousness.
    but that dont stop false gurus from manipulating those powers.

    • zhoro permalink
      October 10, 2010 3:31 pm

      No question that is so. Certainly, though, some would justify even that with the need to attract disciples on the path because said disciples would not be ready to start the search without the appeal of miracles. Needless to say, I don’t buy that.

  33. anon1 permalink
    October 10, 2010 1:37 pm

    and boy if any one of you were actual teachers then you were more at risk of channelling the gurus power then anyone else, and you dont even know it!

    channelling power doesnt mean the guru has to resort to tacky tricks for all to see, the power can be manipulated so so much subtly then that.

  34. anon1 permalink
    October 10, 2010 1:38 pm

    thats why i initially said “its wise to be cautious but to deny it completely is folly.”

  35. anon1 permalink
    October 10, 2010 1:48 pm

    and no offence but calling maharishi a true guru is laughable. he was merely a common guru with a huge belief in himself. so what?
    every other guru is the same. some are even downright psychopathic.
    dont make them right, good or true gurus.
    just makes them COMMON GURUS, one born every minute, ten a penny etc etc.

    • Anon3 permalink
      October 10, 2010 9:19 pm

      @Anon1 – So which Guru/s today, in your opinion, are Satgurus (True gurus)? not knowing how to know whether they are enlightened unless you yourself are, and this being a criteria for a satguru.

      SSRS says that he never curses and that no negative effect can come from his powers. I have an uncling that he’s a Siddha purush who has come. Perhaps even a Tantric and has a lot of emphasis on Shiva. He also goes into all this trance (Bhava) which is quite scary sometimes. I don’t quite know all the complexities of different types of forms in existence, devas, yakshas, siddhas, gandharvas, etc. But someone told me recently that none of the above are enlightened. A Satguru – enlightened master – is someone who has become enlightened in this lifetime or an incarnation of Brahman (supreme consciousness). Again Satguru is different from Avatar. Anyhow, I don’t know all this completely but I just feel scared of that which I don’t know about SSRS. What exactly is he? You may not have seen any powers but I have. He talks bizarre occult things sometimes to senior teachers, those who are will know what I mean.

  36. coward permalink
    October 10, 2010 2:22 pm

    I would like to see a magic show where magician never claims having supernatural powers. And they Should be given noble prize for entertainment and honesty. God never stoops so low to show His presence to fools because He is omnipresent,omnipotent omniscient.

  37. anon1 permalink
    October 10, 2010 3:35 pm

    coward

    no god never stoops so low as to show his presence to fools but sometimes his so-called messengers sure do!

    and anyway i’m off my soap box now, im starting to bore myself.
    i think this topic has been exhausted.
    i was just expressing my opinion that’s all. you know opinions, everyones allowed to have one!

  38. Svetana permalink
    October 10, 2010 5:19 pm

    @ anon1

    “sure the siddhis are a manifestation of another dreaming consciousness.but that dont stop false gurus from manipulating those powers…and boy if any one of you were actual teachers then you were more at risk of channelling the gurus power then anyone else, and you dont even know it!
    channelling power doesnt mean the guru has to resort to tacky tricks for all to see, the power can be manipulated so so much subtly then that.”

    It’s very true. And the moment you realize or rather experience that you are being manipulated through this power, you can no longer trust such a guru and you simply leave him. Logical way of understanding that guru is false, though, is a much longer way, especially, if this guru is skillful in the art of deceit. This may explain the fact why even very bright people, including people posting on this blog, are stuck with such guru for years and even decades.

  39. harshal permalink
    October 10, 2010 6:44 pm

    “It is ever present as the reality upon which all phenomena manifest and can be realized at any moment when attention is withdrawn from the phenomena into the source that perceives them until no such duality of perceiver and perceived remains’

    @zhoro: These are just words you have picked from different spirtual shops you have been visiting. Why are you giving this cool aid here?

    • Truth permalink
      October 11, 2010 12:57 am

      @harshal: what zhoro said is the TRUTH. Eventually every one has to realize it …when they leave the path ..and transcend it.

      Please respect others. Concepts you learn are not the uimate truth. TRUTH is beyond concepts, beyond explanation. One just has to experience it turning inward.

  40. Harshal permalink
    October 11, 2010 9:13 am

    @truth : you are just contradicting yourself, you say what zhoro said is Truth, and then you say truth is beyond concepts….whatever zhoro said, isn’t that a concept as well?’One just has to experience it turning inward’- isn’t this just a concept as well? who turns inwards? where is inwards?

    • Anonymous permalink
      October 11, 2010 10:55 pm

      Harshie, like everything else, the things I wrote about remain a concept until actualized in practice. The same applies to anything you can bring up and anything your guru talks about.

      You are clutching at straws in order to avoid addressing the questions people here are asking of AoL, while displaying the typical arrogance of AoL when asked uncomfortable questions.

      Do not try to tell me what to do. It won’t work.

      BTW, Kool-Aid is spelled like so, since you were taking up someone’s English profiency case. This is just one of the multiple grammatical problems in your posts.

    • zhoro permalink
      October 11, 2010 11:14 pm

      Harshie, the things I mentioned are certainly concepts until actualized in practice. Just like anything you may bring up or your guru talks about. Don’t try to get into mental equilibristics while consistently neglecting to address the issues that people here are asking of AoL.

      Do not tell me what to do. It won’t work.

      Kool-Aid is spelled like so.

    • Think permalink
      October 12, 2010 7:17 pm

      @Harshal: One can communicate with an ignorant person or a knowledgeable person. One can’t communicate with some one who is half baked.

      May God (your Higher self) bless you and give you the experience required for you grasp glimpses of TRUTH.

  41. anon1 permalink
    October 13, 2010 12:55 pm

    thx svetana in some ways its like a spell needs to be broken because the relationship between a guru and student sometimes involves mysticism/magic or whatever the word is.

    whistleblower- i’m happy to know that you and the other ex teachers have left without any adverse reactions. nor did they experience any negative reactions whilst in the cult. thats good news. all i’m saying is its not always like this.

    anon3- sorry i wouldnt know who the true gurus are. pls tell me if you find him/her! as for srrs, sorry i cant provide much feedback, i was actually in another cult and i find much solace here so i visit here.

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