Reincarnation or De-incarnation?
What happens when we die?
The concept of an afterlife of some kind is so widespread in the world that it is taken for granted by most, except a few percent of the world population. Those Godless Unbelivers, the atheists.
A quick Google search brought me to this website, and the following excellent overview:
What happens after we die? This is one of the questions found so often in the field of religion in which different faiths teach a variety of incompatible, mutually exclusive beliefs. Meanwhile, most people are totally onvinced that they know the answer precisely.
Many mental health professionals and religious historians believe that religion was created millennia ago as an attempt to explain how the universe works and what happens to people after death. Religions were originally developed so that people could have a sense of power over their life and environment. Knowing that they may be wiped out at any time by starvation, animal attacks, drought, floods, foreign army attack, illnesses, accidents, etc., ancient people sought security in an insecure world. Religion filled that need.
There are few if any fears more serious than the fear of death. Religions answered these fears with a belief that somehow a person’s personality, memories, talents, and consciousness survived death in a new form.
There is general agreement among persons of all religions that a person’s eventual destiny after death will be one of the following:
Heaven: Eternity is spent in Heaven or Paradise with God, in a state that is beautiful beyond our ability to conceive. Hell: Eternity is spent in Hell with Satan and his demons. All are tormented and tortured, in isolation from God, without any hope of mercy or relief. Annihilation: The body rots. One’s, spirit, memory, personality, awareness, body, and mind disappear and are no more. Transmigration of the soul: Our soul and spirit are reborn into a human fetus or newborn child. Reincarnation: Our soul and spirit are reborn into another living entity – not necessarily human. Most people believe that up to three of the above destinations and states exist. For example, some faith groups teach that people who are saved go to Heaven; those who are unsaved go to Hell and are eventually annihilated. They regard the other options as religious fantasy which do not exist in reality. But, of course, there is no general agreement about which are the true states and which are the fantasies.
There is close agreement within most faith groups, but little agreement between religions, about what criteria is used to determine whether, for example, a person has been saved and will eventually reside in Heaven or is unsaved and will spend eternity in Hell.
There is also little agreement about the processes, locations, and states that a person will go through between death and their final destiny.
Interesting analysis of religion. I have yet to come across a religion that believes in annihilation after death. But maybe they are out there.
As the Art of Living makes a great show out of welcoming all religious denominations and individual beliefs (except atheists, apparently, whom Ravi openly calls “stupid”), it becomes increasingly clear as you advance in the organization that a central part of the aol religious belief system is – reincarnation. The guru himself has stated: “I don’t BELIEVE in reincarnation -I know for a fact that it exists.” You would expect that, of course, from a Hindu priest.
That is a pretty powerful statement from a person who claims Divine Insight and possession of Ultimate Truth. No wonder people in AOL go a little crazy. I have personally met Radha, the Virgin Mary, and one of Jesus’ apostles in the flock of people close to Ravi. And of course it is a widespread belief (and never negated by Ravi) that the guru himself is both Krishna and Jesus reincarnated. If Jesus hadn’t been single, his girlfriend would probably be there also, in the flock of lunatics surrounding his current incarnation.
Eternity Processes have revealed countless Sadhus, princes, princesses, witches persecuted and burned on the stake, proud warriors and ancient followers of the guru in one of his countless incarnations.
In TTC, we were told that “all of us have been with Guruji before” (in a past life). One lifetime is not enough, apparently, to recognize the guru’s true divine nature.
Of course, no evidence exists that supports the concept of reincarnation. I will not go into that here. Rather, I wish to analyze how the concept of reincarnation and the closely associated belief in “karma” is used to manipulate people in aol.
In another post, coming soon. So stay tuned!
Comments are closed.
SW,
you said: “I have yet to come across a religion that believes in annihilation after death. But maybe they are out there.”
Well, it’s not a religion, but I have visited with one Ramesh Balsekar in Bombay and had the opportunity to ask this question. I asked him about the soul, and he smiled and said “the only sole I know about is on the bottom of my shoe, or perhaps, fillet of sole..” Then I asked what happens when we die if there is no soul? He replied, calmly, serenely, that the organism just dies. That’s it. It’s over. He went on to compare the human body and our life and death with the life of an electrical appliance. He said “when the toaster is done, it gets thrown in the trash.” But, he said, that the electrical current which made the toaster do it’s toasting is always there. But the toaster doesn’t ‘know’ anything about that anymore, because it’s broken, finished, etc. He felt (he is deceased now) that the body is the same as an appliance, supplied with ‘current’ which we call life force, but that there is no individual anything when we die. Just the life force in general. Being near him was very uplifting and soothing. His presence was wonderful. He was a banker when he was younger, lived an ordinary life, with wife, kids, grandkids, and spoke in his living room to groups of perhaps 20 or so people. Some of what he said was very interesting. It’s hard to know what the truth is, of course, since I haven’t died just yet 🙂 Anyway, it’s one person’s perspective. He was a disciple of Nisargadatta Maharaj, the author of “I Am That”. Ramesh was considered a great enlightened saint by his master, and by many in Bombay who visited him. Who knows? He seemed very wise.
Precisely: “Who knows?”. Nobody does, really. That is why, when people claim divine insight and try to push their faith down other people’s throat, it becomes abuse of authority.
That being said, he sounds like a wise and humble man. We are all toasters!
Yes, he was a very nice man. But as always, those listening to him made what he said into their “religion”. And boring it became. He didn’t seem to care one way or the other what anyone did with what he said, except he allowed them to put what he called his “concepts” in books which described his point of view. He always prefaced everything he said with “this is a concept” or that it was basically his point of view, not the Truth. He believed that the Truth cannot be spoken, only concepts can be.
No matter how humble, conceited, powerful, ordinary, someone is, it seems that as soon as they speak to more than two friends about something, some group forms, then ‘acceptable’ and ‘unacceptable’ behaviors begin to be described by that group, etc. In the case of Art of Living, Ravi Shankar himself dictates what is acceptable and unacceptable. This Balsekar fellow did not. He just argued, politely, with anyone who would come and ask to argue with him. It was truly fun! He would engage you one on one, and you could go point by point. He never sat and said “Hmmmmm? I don’t knooooow” like the idiotic Sri Sri. At least Balsekar gave people credit for some intelligence, and treated them as equals. People did bow down to him, however, and he did allow it, just sitting there, at the end of a talk. People sometimes gave him money, although it didn’t look like he needed anything, having been very successful in his own right before he became “enlightened” if he was indeed “englightened”. He began speaking to people in his home after he was about 60 years old, I believe. Such a contrast to AOL and all the fake claims. There are such people in India if you look around. And they are not all acidic like U.G. Krishnamurti (not J. Krishnamurti).
The part about being RS’s helpers in previous lifetime is obviously bunkum…but, the whole thing about spirituality is that there is more to life than purely material and finite existence. With insight, it becomes more and more clear that while the body is perishable, you are not.
Precisely: “Who knows?”. Nobody does, really.
How convenient! You ‘know’ this.
“Who knows” means “I don’t know” in simple English. Get a life, Harshal.
If only I knew all the synonyms for the word stupid, I would have been so less redundant.
I am pointing out that how convenient it is for him to claim that he ‘knows’ that no-body knows.
many people had left Ramesh in late 2004 and early 2005 upon hearing revelations coming out of a long seminar with Ramesh in Kovalam Beach in Kerala, India, of more greed and financial impropriety by him and his organizers, and, especially, hearing revelations of Ramesh’s longtime exploitation of certain women disciples as objects for his own bodymind’s sexual pleasure.
http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/ramesh_balsekar.html
losers galore!!! Idiots like you will criticize, judge all the spiritual masters.
Harshal did a quick google of Balsekar and commented. LOL Tired of Harshal.
Ramesh evidently cheated on his wife, got caught, then publicly apologized for hurting people! I cannot imagine what “financial impropriety” you could accuse him of, since his followers sold books and tapes, and no money was collected otherwise, except to stay at the retreats. It was even public knowledge that two of his disciples (both Indians) lived partially from these proceeds, and that one of his American disciples did as well. There was nothing unknown about these things that I know of. There was no money collected for ‘charity’ and then kept to enrich his family. If a gift was given, it was directly to him, and assumed to be for whatever he liked, I suppose. People brought him gifts as well, and Johnny Walker Blue was one of his favorites. He had bad habits, admitted them in public, and yet was a spiritual man, in my view. Perhaps because he was just plain honest about his faults? Sri Sri is a little closeted creep who cannot even admit what and who he is the public and pretends to be God. Talk about losers! Anyone following him who doesn’t know that about him isn’t even close enough to the ‘source’ to comment, much less defend. Ravi Shankar is not spiritual.
It was not a quick google search, it was a lightening quick google search. I just typed ‘critique balaskar’ and it came up. The point is to highlight your stupidity and the stupidity of others who chose random anonymous blog, websites rather than personal experiences to judge an organization a spiritual teacher.
Do you not think that since some random guy has set up a website to criticize Rameshji, lots of people will be deprived of his beautiful teachings?
If someone has bad habits and admits them in public that makes him spiritual? really? and if someone has bad habits and does not admit them in public they are not spiritual? Logic of a darkened intellect.
If you are tired of me you are free not to respond me.
This is what is posted above the comment box at the AOL life stories blogspot where Harshal claims to have his story somewhere (he said above “look carefully” but I’m too lazy):
Comments are moderated to keep the conversation civil and respectful. Thank You.
How is it that they moderate comments and people like Harshal will be civil and respectful in that forum, but not here? Is it that they have no freedom of speech in Art of Living? So he needs someplace to come and lash out? I wonder how many sites Harshal and Anna go to in order to get their daily cruelty and sadism fix for entertainment? The double standard is sickening.
@Anon 6:27
They use harshal-like behavior as an excuse to censor all criticism – or they just attribute doubts to low prana/bad karma.
A free suggestion: if you guys want to have ‘civil and respectful’ discussion go AOL blogs.
This is not a place for civilized people.
H, i have a free thing for you too. Its a Berlin WCF song that will cost money soon so download it when you still can (link expires on the 24th) and feel free to share.
https://www.yousendit.com/dl?phi_action=app/orchestrateDownload&rurl=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.yousendit.com%252Ftransfer.php%253Faction%253Dbatch_download%2526batch_id%253DUnlBZHlrMVhTRTQwTVE9PQ
I find it funny how AOL is asking chapters these days to bring more people, and all that for FREE! No 30 euros per cheapest ticket any longer, because “Guruji has heard the poor mans prayers”. How convenient. Tickets aren’t really selling as planned, are they?
Just like your master criticised his spiritual master the great maharishi Mahesh yogi, from whom he learnt all the yoga kriyas he is now trademarking as his own . Surprising isnt it, we ordinary folks are not allowed to criticise and scrutinise these so called “spiritual giants”, While these spiritual giants will be having spats amongst themselves like passengers fighting over a train seat.
“A free suggestion: if you guys want to have ‘civil and respectful’ discussion go AOL blogs.
This is not a place for civilized people”
Riight. ‘Cause you bring such wonderful and intelligent discussion here. 😉 Your attempt at doing whatever it is you doing, is not working. 😀 Why don’t you use some of that “advanced” awareness you have and do something better with your life Harshy? Mm?
@skywalker,
“Of course, no evidence exists that supports the concept of reincarnation.”
Ignore the delusional claims made by AOL…there is real research backing reincarnation.
Check out some books written by Dr Ian Stevenson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson
Can anybody who has read the books explain how re-incarnation is proved by the experiments ?
Also how is past life regression is conducted ?
Reincarnation may be there. Who knows ? But how is it proved by experiments is curious to know. And if it is real, why cant scientific community accept it ?
“I have yet to come across a religion that believes in annihilation after death. But maybe they are out there.”
Well. Jainism does.
“Eternity Processes have revealed countless Sadhus, princes, princesses, witches persecuted and burned on the stake, proud warriors and ancient followers of the guru in one of his countless incarnations.”
Ever wondered why no one ever discovered in eternity process that his past life was as boring, mediocre and ordinary as the current one?
har har har de har. ROFLMAO .good one that
I did plenty of EP’s for people back in my aol days and they were mostly boring, mediocre and ordinary, plus past lives were not the important part of the whole thing. Ordinary people had no need to trip and be important.
Reincarnation, de-incarnation, frankly who cares? Just live your life to the fullest and to hell with the rest. Trying to be perfect and to live a life as scripted by your guruji is one of the biggest causes of problems in our life. Maybe I am “low prana” compared to the AOL high and mighty, I enjoy a good wine and talk trash with close buddies, but hey, at least I now have a life after quitting the cult of AOL.
An AOL Troll commenting nastily here the other day said something about there being no traffic to this blog anymore. I noticed that over about a day period, maybe 36 hours, there were over 1000 hits. Oh, sorry, I forgot, Sri Sri Sri 1008 Sri His Magnificence draws crowds of lakhs and lakhs, so this little 1000 hits daily is nothing to the AOL drone group. Drone on brainless, clueless, hyperventilated zombies. Get to know your precious master up close and personal, then come back and talk. There is only one way you wouldn’t run away from him — that’s if you just lovvvve what he is offering privately. And I’m sure some of his clones do love it. And that’s fine. He could at least be honest about it. Oh, but that’s right — then he’d go to jail, unless he is in Delhi.
And what is he “offering privately”?
This should be of interest to many here:
http://www.time.com/time/video/player/0,32068,971515233001_2075202,00.html
A man pretends to be a guru and attracts followers for a documentary.
Sorry mello, Anyone who writes anything here too explicitly gets sued by Deep Pockets Ravi Ravi. You’ll just have to go find out for yourself, or ask someone privately. I’d be amused to see what he would do if some actually came forward and said “go ahead, sue me and show up in court and deny what we are saying…..” That would be really cute. The Sleazemaster.
@Skywalker
Its great that you took up several of these concepts (reincarnation, Siddhis, etc) that can’t be proved one way or other, but trying to analyse and show how AOL uses these on gullible to rake up its coffers, also fame for guru. Knowledge is power, once one realizes that he/she is being used, can get out of the AOL clutches.
“can get out of the ….clutches”
How long are you guys are going to play this card of
‘Oh I am so simple and get into these clutches of evil people who are out there to trap me’
When are you going to start playing the card of
‘I just realized that I am a loser , my life is messed up and I need something to shift the blame’
How long are you going to play this card of
‘Oh I am so spiritually enlightened, intelligent and have advanced awareness of everything’
When are you going to start playing the card of
‘I’m an asshole who hasn’t progressed on the path of life at all. I claim to be intelligent, yet I simply don’t know how to use any of the knowledge AOL has taught me. I’m just a bitter and lonely jerk who hates his life and comes here for entertainment because he hates his life in AOL. I now doubt AOL and SSRS, and that is the true reason I spend my life here insulting others.’
Sounds accurate to me Jr. LOL! Why else would someone who hates everything that is said here so much continue to frequent the “losers” and “stupid people” as he loves to say? How entertaining could it possibly be? And if it is, he is worse off than anyone could know.
You know, Jr., this Harshal person sounds a lot like SSRS when he is in a bad and insulting mood! This Harshal looks to be fully cloned. I’ll bet in public, not here, he walks around and smiles and acts like a little angel 🙂
Anyway, Art of Living is still a waste of life, and the less time spent there, the better for all. If people come here even just to insult those who were smart enough to leave Ravi Ravi and his cloned drones, at least they are not wasting their lives on worship of the cheating fraud’s feet and other body parts, and not teaching others to do the same. Yuck.
Jr. : Looks like I have hit you where it hurts the most. You are welcome.
Are you sure you are not projecting what you have said about me?Do not take this too personally. I have never claimed ” enlightened, intelligent and have advanced awareness of everything”. However, I do think I am more creative when it comes to insulting people like you. I come up with different ways ideas and styles. Like for example this ‘two cards’ style. How fair it is to copy it right-away?
Anyway some news for you- I am going for a TTC shortly.
Best of luck for the TTC. I am sure you have all the eligibility to be selected to the coveted position of art of living teacher. BTW if you feel you want to save money on the SK tape, you need not buy it and can download them from torrents.
“Looks like I have hit you where it hurts the most. You are welcome”
Harshal reveals his true intentions for coming here. What a sadist!
Not that it’s any news….
lol, oh little Harshy… If that’s what you need to believe to bring you some joy and accomplishment in your agitated and bitter life, then go ahead. 😉
If AOL accepted you into TTC, then that’s another really bad sign for the organization. lol What will you teach your students, how to try to hurt others? I can see all the lessons of the basic course going out the window when Harshy is teacher.
We should send TTC your brilliant and inspiring spiritual comments (Harshisms) you post on here. I’m sure they’d approve of your high prana posts. 😉
It’s so relieving, to hear that you’re leaving. But we know you’re really not. You’ll take on a new digital incarnation (Corrector, Jacob, etc.) and start spamming here as usual.
Enjoy your TTC course (if they really did accept an animal like you). Maybe you’ll finally start living the knowledge. Best of luck to you ol’ little bitter Harshy.
Dear h.,
Please listen to your inner voice which tells you to keep visiting this blog under the guise of ‘entertainment’. Note the blatant brainwashing, recruitment, other cult techniques in TTC when you are there. Most of all – may your ‘critical thinking’ be with you!
This mail is going around see below.
Why would a Guru of a spiritual organization make such a plea and be so demanding of his flock. Is it his big Ego or the small Ego……….
Now a CEO of an Int. business however would send out a message like this. The opportunity to create brand recognition is enormous. Having such an event is a great opportunity sell ones products and services to boost sales and generate new customers.
And of course as the CEO you can shine in such divine light and have many people look up to you…….
And they say AOL is not an corporation……..
The mail:
Guruji said in the meeting yesterday:
Stop having fun and get focused
And said everyone must work for the world culture festival
No time for complaints, tears and emotions
Fun after July 3rd
He said till evening do seva comeback in the evening
Take a shower do 20 min singing 20 min meditation
And then go out for a 2 hr walk and meet people and tell about world culture festival and invite them
He said everyone must sleep by 11pm
What a change from his initial message from years back: God Loves Fun. Guess God changed his mind about that? LOL
I have read the book God Love Fun, it means bliss is God. Sri Sri Ravishankar is divine person. He has not fallen for temptations. I am not an insider , but i know that Sri Sri RaviShankar is Divine. I am not saying the same thing about the organization. It has many people with diffrent desires and agendas.
Sri Sri Ravishankar has spread yoga and meditation to all over the world. People who didn’t know anything about yoga, pranayama and meditation now know about all this. Sri Sri is being spiritual as well now he has moved to the core of society as a Reformer.
They are not forcing anyone to give money or join their course. only those interested are joining.
i have attended Art of Living course in the early 90’s. i have met Sri Sri and found him to be genuinely concerned about spiritual and social welfare of the people.
@DevD: Why don’t you post the torrent link here?
Cause your illustrious boss will have more ammo to sue the poor blogmaster(s?) for something that should never have been copyrighted in the first place, since it is not his. Be sure to get quality time with the Big Cheese(y) One, H. And find out all about him in private 😉 Maybe he will offer to raise your kundalini, 😉 Ask him. LOL! You’re in for a real treat/surprise, I think. You don’t know anything about this man obviously.
Have fuuuunnnnn!
Oh, I forgot. People can’t just go and sit with The Great One just like that these days. Well, maybe you are very special for doing all this “web seva” like a real warrior, and he’ll grant you the coveted private audience that people so crave for. Yuck.
Oh, and Harshal, be sure to tell Sri Sri Sri 1008 Sri His Holiness, Reincarnation of Krishna Rama You Name It, that there have been around 1800 or so hits to this site that gets so little traffic according to you in another post………………….;-)
Mean to say 1800 or so hits since yesterday — to make a grand total of 372,981, in case you can’t read the mark above.
Harshal,
Ever heard of Google or are you so much dependent on your master that you do not have a need for the same? In that case ask your enlightened master (the reincarnation of Jesus and Krishna). He will be able to direct you not only to the torrents but even provide you with the addresses of the persons sharing the files. All you need to do is pray sincerely to your master and all your desires will be fulfilled.
Don’t be silly. He will charge him 30 euros and sell him his own copy 😉
AN OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY FEEL LIKE YOU BELONG AND SPECIAL….at a price of course.
You were told to stop being emotional and do your seva (while walking for two hours)to convince as many souls as possible to come to the World Culture Festival.
For all your hard work you can have your picture and name in a magazine with the master Ravi and his message. You will be immortalized for many years to come, just donate Euro 108. But hurry just a few space left…….
I wonder if I don’t have the money to donate will my picture and name still make it in the magazine ???
I have to hand it to the marketing team awesome and very creative and subtle product pushing.
The revenue that will be generated during the world Culture Days will of course go to help the poor really really……..right…….
See mail:
The World Culture Festival is coming soon and we look forward to welcoming you in Berlin on 2nd July!
Great news! We are happy to announce that you can accommodate yours or (your beloved ones) portrait and name as a part of the Magazine of the World Culture Festival, which will be distributed to the participants and our wide network.
We have spaces for 108 people who would like to support the magazine and it’s message on Guruji’s vision and AOL work in 30 years, by stating their names and donating 108 euro.
Few spaces are still left! Deadline for submitting your portrait is on June 11th!
For more information please send us an email on XXXXXX
With best regards from sunny Berlin ,
Jai Gurudev,
Your WCF team.
Ram Guha on new-age ‘performance artists’:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/columnsothers/Performance-artists/Article1-706531.aspx
On Ravishankar:
“On the other hand, a hunger for publicity is the hallmark of some of the best-known spiritual leaders of contemporary India. They spend as much time on making themselves known, and praised, as on seeking the truth. Consider a guru in my home town, Bangalore, who, like Ramana, is a Tamil, indeed from the same Iyer sub-caste. In other ways he is emphatically different; in his careful attention to his dress and appearance, for example, or in his not-so-careful cultivation of the rich, the powerful, and the influential.”
(This has nothing to do with this particular post, of course. A discussion forum attached to the blog might be useful.)
SSRS’s father passed away today in Bangalore.
http://in.news.yahoo.com/sri-sri-ravishankar-bereaved-124300070.html
When you die no one will care.
So Sri Sri openly refers to Atheists as ‘Stupid’ eh?
If he is so open about it, provide a video of it. Provide some proof. You can back up what you say right?
While you’re at it, you must have some proof that Sri Sri claims to be: Christ, Krishna and Buddha right? Did he scream it from the rooftop or did he whisper it. ‘I am Christ’ ‘I am now Krishna’ ‘Yet Now I’m Buddha’
Or is all this hearsay just backed up by Anonymous 2 and then Anonymous 3?
Others were right to tell me – Leave these low IQ guys alone. You don’t want stupidity rubbing off on you.
True That!
Havn’t you seen those videos where he claims terrorists were in Ashram trying to kill him, and later ridiculing the police for their findings that it was fired by some one in the near by farm to scare away the dogs?
I was there in Ashram that day when he claimed he got shot and I attended the Satsang and heard him talking about it.. not sure if that video is still there in Youtube or AOL might have deleted that.. Give me a break dude..
Re-incarnation is the wrong word. Rebirth is what the author is discussing here.
rebirth as a concept is the best we have in explaining why people are born in varied circumstances with varied abilities/disabilities.
The author’s bias (or maybe justified angst) against ravi shankar must not be offloaded to the rebirth concept, IMHO
PS: I am no fan of Yoga Gurus who sell oriental PT exercises as self-realization packages
who will stop the corruption or the corrupted ministers, the people of
our country, so don,t blame on Anna. He has shown the right way to oppose
corruption and we will do it again & again if they don’t understand, because it is for the rights of a Citizen. Understood you should better understand.
@Anonymous,
Who is the “they” you are referring to ?? The ministers ?? The Bureaucrats?? You think if you pass a bill curtailing their powers corruption will vanish ? What about corruption by the corporates who bribe left right and centre to acquire land? What about NGO’s like AOL who swindle public money into non existent public projects??
Did you in your blind addiction ever realise that Anna’s LokPal Bill completely excludes NGO’s like AOL, and corporates from the purview of the bill?? Am I to conclude that this nation is divided into an uncorrupt civil society and a corrupt polity??
Am I to conclude that someone who waved the national flag and sang patriotic songs at the ramlila maidan has never paid bribes or never will?
When the Lokpal and the beaurocracy of the Lokpal come into place and even then corruption isn’t gone are these unelected leaders going to take responsibility?? And just maybe you may understand that the “they” you refer to are really “you”. How can bribery exist in the absence of bribe givers?
SW… which part of Vedic basis of AOL do you not understand? The whole idea has always been revival of vedic learning. But I pity your ignorance. Who is a hindu? Hindu’s is variation of the word “Indu’s” used for the people living on this of the river INDUS. So even a Christian or a Muslim in this country is a Hindu! If you are trying to refer to the religion it is Sanatan Dharma.
Wonder why you would try and discredit others working hard for a lot of good just because some people around (as always found in every organisation) are not the best fit in that role / situation.
Guess you need to not just read up on your cultural history but also on the basic teachings of AOL (to even start discrediting it)