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Further Evidence of The Dangers of Sudarshan Kriya

July 21, 2011

Within this blog we have published a number of articles where we question the safety and purported benefits of Art of Living’s Sudarshan Kriya breathing technique.

The article Is Sudarshan Kriya Safe? raises a number of questions and concerns which many have voiced throughout this and other blogs, and Refuting “Scientific Research” on Sudarshan Kriya features a number of observations made by one of the doctors at NIMHANS who carried out research on the effectiveness of SK, criticizing Art of Living on the findings they had published.

As with nearly all other concerns raised in this blog, all of the issues raised in the above posts have been completely ignored by anyone in Art of Living. However very recently, thanks to a comment left by an anonymous poster, a fanatical pro-AoLer who has been highly abusive to most contributors here finally responded to Dr Janakiramaiah’s comments:

harshal, July 20, 2011 10:23 pm

ya anon.you are stupid. Jankiram says there is no mystical meaning behind tingling. There is’int. It is just the respiratory alkolosis which causes it. I know that , most of the people know it and i realized that when i did the SK for the first time. Does that mean SK is BS? But does she debunk the whole SK?Does she say that there are side-effects because of SK. Is she saying that there the paper she published is bogus?
How will you explain respiratory alkalosis to a villager or a layman? Do you even know what it is?
you are happy to believe the tingling part, but you dont want to believe other parts of the paper , and other papers which show a clear benefit of SK? Why is it? Is it because you are so fu**ed up that you can only see negatives?

For those who are unaware, Harshal is actually a qualified medical doctor, an Art of Living devotee, and he recently revealed to us that he will soon be taking the AoL TTC. He has also has some involvement in the research into the benefits of SK. As such this means we can safely consider him as somewhat of an authority as far as matters related to SK are concerned, especially as he has given his “expertise” in this area in the past.

What makes his comment particularly interesting and insightful is that up until now both he and AoL have denied that SK has any negative side-effects whatsoever. However he is now telling us that SK causes respiratory alkalosis. A quick google search revealed the following information about respiratory alkalosis:

Source: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000111.htm:

Symptoms: Dizziness, Light-headedness, Numbness of the hands and feet
[…]
Seizures may occur if the alkalosis is extremely severe. This is very rare.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respiratory_alkalosis

Acute respiratory alkalosis occurs rapidly. During acute respiratory alkalosis, the person may lose consciousness where the rate of ventilation will resume to normal.

Source: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/301680-overview

Respiratory alkalosis is a clinical disturbance due to alveolar hyperventilation.

Do these symptoms sound familiar to anyone who has ever practiced SK? Certainly many people have reported dizziness, light-headedness, and most will have experienced numbness or a tingling sensation in the hands and feet. There are also a number of more concerning accounts of people passing out after practicing SK.

Now, Dr Bharti Verma MD, another Art of Living devotee and teacher (according to Harshal), tells us in the AoL published book “Way of Grace” (excerpt available online here):

Sudarshan Kriya is not hyperventilation: Although the physiology of Sudarshan Kriya remains to be studied and its biochemistry yet to be explained, the process is unlike hyperventilation and seems much more complex in its nature. A person hyperventilating will often experience lightheadedness, blurred vision, muscle spasms of hands and feet, a general feeling of being unwell, fainting and loss of consciousness. In contrast, course participants learning Sudarshan Kriya report a state of deep relaxation while feeling rejuvenated and re-energized. Clearly the experiences of persons practicing Sudarshan Kriya are exactly the opposite of what a hyperventilating exercise would be expected to produce. — Bharti Verma, M.D.

The most interesting about this statement is that it seems to directly contradict what Harshal told us above. He specifically said:

It is just the respiratory alkolosis which causes it [the tingling]. I know that , most of the people know it and i realized that when i did the SK for the first time.

If Harshal knows this, and “most of the people know it”, then why would Dr Verma tell us something completely different? Why in fact would most AoL published sources also claim that SK isn’t hyperventilation, when all the evidence points to the fact that it is? Why in particular would they claim that SK has only “positive benefits”, when these particular symptoms do not sound like they are positive at all? Maybe the tingling, numbness, light-headedness and losing consciousness are the positive benefits, or at the very least they aren’t anything to worry about? To be sure, I checked with a very reliable doctor I am close to and she confirmed that any practice which leads to respiratory alkalosis is something which one should avoid.

Dr Verma’s statement further begs the question, can a person simultaneously experience these unpleasant symptoms of respiratory alkalosis whilst at the same time feel deeply relaxed and rejuvenated? It seems almost impossible to feel pleasant and unpleasant sensations simultaneously, yet SSRS does actually say something along the lines of “you may feel pleasant or unpleasant sensations” on at least one version of the Kriya tape. Could this be just to reassure practitioners that these unpleasant symptoms of respiratory alkalosis are actually acceptable?

Harshal:

Does that mean SK is BS? But does she debunk the whole SK?Does she say that there are side-effects because of SK. Is she saying that there the paper she published is bogus?

Referring to: Refuting “Scientific Research” on Sudarshan Kriya:

[Dr Janakiramaiah] felt that the research findings had been published much before any valid testing could be done to prove the results were valid. Especially claims like improved areas of function in the brain etc were not done according to the approval of NIMHANS. The preliminary ‘positive’ effects had been observed and then published and used as a validation for the SKY before any actual scientific testing could be done.

I wouldn’t say that this makes the research “bogus”, but at the very least it makes one wonder how exaggerated the conclusions drawn actually are. Maybe Sudarshan Kriya does have benefits, but one should really be wary of how Art of Living markets these benefits to their customers, especially with regard to the many claims they make across their various websites. And just because something has benefits, it doesn’t mean there are no adverse side effects to it, which is what AoL is claiming.

How will you explain respiratory alkalosis to a villager or a layman?

You mean, how do you explain that they may experience light-headedness, dizziness, numbness, tingling at the extremities, that there is a chance they may lose consciousness or worse still have a seizure? Why can’t you just warn them about all these risks before they actually begin the practice? Instead of withholding this information from them, explaining it away as toxins being released from the body, or for those who become more deeply involved with AoL, by attributing it to “Guruji’s Grace”. These risks aren’t mentioned in the courses, and it is my best guess that AoL teachers, like most other people, are blissfully unaware of these adverse side effects.

you are happy to believe the tingling part, but you dont want to believe other parts of the paper , and other papers which show a clear benefit of SK? Why is it? Is it because you are so fu**ed up that you can only see negatives?

Finally here you are explicitly admitting that these are negative side-effects.

In terms of not wanting to believe much of what AoL researchers tell us about SK, most people here have grown to distrust almost anything that comes out of the AoL marketing machine, especially when it comes to research on Kriya. This post itself highlights how two AoL doctors who have been involved in research into SK are giving us radically different and contradictory information as to what the effects of kriya actually are, so why on earth should anyone believe any of the remainder of the research?

Ultimately, it is up to each individual person to believe what they want believe, and no amount of research can force them to believe that something is good for them if their own experience has told them otherwise. It strikes me as somewhat bizarre that you would get so angry and abusive at those who have chosen not to believe these findings. Maybe if we were still in AoL we would believe the reported findings unquestioningly, and we would also still believe there are no negative side-effects. But now that we have left we are actually free to make up our minds about this, and about a great many other things besides, and above all we are free to do our own research and come to our own conclusions. This is something which you probably aren’t accustomed to, but one day if you ever leave you may realize that you too are free to make your own decisions in life and not just blindly believe everything your guru tells you.

To those of you who have never done Sudarshan Kriya and who have discovered this blog by accident or because a friend told you about it, I urge you to do as much research as you can on this subject. Do not just blindly accept what AoL tell you, and don’t even blindly accept what is written on this blog either. Read through everything we have written about it (a good starting place is here), and if you have any concerns whatsoever, consult a non-AoL doctor and explain to them what the practice involves and see what they have to say on the subject.

All we are interested in is finding out the truth about this technique, and warning others about any risks which they may face if they decide to learn and practice it. All the information thus far is presented as-is. If you feel that you can trust all the scientific research conducted by AoL and believe it to be safe, then by all means go ahead and try it out. And yes, many of us have experienced benefits from SK and we have reported these on this blog. It’s just that many have also reported a concerning number of harmful side-effects, and as such we feel that both of these aspects should be fully represented in any literature on Sudarshan Kriya.

Finally, there are still a number of unanswered questions raised across these blogs on SK, and a number of new ones which have arisen as a result of this post:

  • Why doesn’t Art of Living tell people about the negative side effects of Sudarshan Kriya alongside the benefits?
  • Why do you (Harshal) and Art of Living go as far as to deny that there are any negative side effects, even though you have just admitted that there are?
  • Why does Art of Living manipulate followers into believing that the effects of SK are due to “Guruji’s Grace”? Or that the tingling sensations / muscle spasms are due to the accumulation of prana?
  • Why does the kriya tape produce the same effects even when no teacher is present? Doesn’t this confirm that all stories surrounding the tape are bogus, and that Art of Living can and should give all course participants a copy of the tape at the end of the Basic Course? Of course, that does mean that they won’t be able to entice them to weekly long kriya sessions, and probably won’t be able to sell places for their TTC course without radically changing its content.
  • How can Guruji’s Grace “flow” into participants who are doing home kriya? If it can’t, and I can’t see how it can, then what benefit can home kriya give compared to the long kriya?
  • Since the technique has changed so many times, there are different versions across different tapes, and of course the long and short versions are radically different, what exactly constitutes Sudarshan Kriya? It doesn’t seem that even the technique is clearly defined.
  • If, as the myth goes, it was “revealed” to SSRS whilst in meditation, were all these different versions of Kriya revealed to him at the same time, or did he decide to make the modifications to it himself over the years? And how did the home kriya version come about?
  • Why during a long kriya group session does the teacher never correct the way any of the participants breath, especially when they are all breathing in different ways, some softly, some with forced breathing?

I’m not hopeful that any of these questions will ever be answered, but if they were then it would help us greatly to debunk much of the disinformation and obvious contradictions surrounding the technique.

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90 Comments
  1. Jr. permalink
    July 21, 2011 9:59 pm

    Fantastic post. This is really the biggest issue with AOL I have, and this blog and others will force AOL into explaining more of the truth about SK, and not just the illusion that it’s healthy for everyone.

    Will any more brave AOL followers come forward and address any of these issues?
    .

  2. harshal permalink
    July 22, 2011 7:24 am

    another cheap attempt of sensationalism. So blinded you are by the desire to damage AOL that you can no longer see what you are typing here.

    I have posted elsewhere before, any spiritual practise has a physiological and spiritual component. Both are useful and complementary.

    Meditation for example, cause reduced Basal Metabolic Rate and decreases heart rate. Decrease in heart rate is also known as bradycardia. Now , if you were to search bradycardia, it will come up as ‘arrhythmia’. But since you do not understand the difference between physiological bradycardia and pathological bradycardia, (just like you do not undersand the difference between physiological alkalosis and pathological alkalosis) you will make up another post- “Serious Side effect of meditation- bradycardia”.

    You are consistently being exposed as a cheap bastard who wants to damage AOL. Keep it up.

    • Nagesh permalink
      July 22, 2011 10:57 am

      In a way harshal is right about the physiological and pathological. There is a symptom and a continued evidence of this leads to pathology. You can really see the pathological effects of Sudarshan Kriya in the long term practitioners. it has been my personal experience that long term practice of sudarshan kriya causes pathological symptoms – loss of memory, fidgeting, nervous disorders and many others. As an ex-teacher, I have observed this in several people well known to me. I have also seen that lot of these long time AOLers do not practice SK. Even the first family members Ravishankar, Bhanu Didi and the late Pitaji Ratnam never regularly practiced kriya.

      • anonymous permalink
        July 22, 2011 1:12 pm

        Dear “Doctor”,

        Thank you for this post in it’s detail. I am not a doctor. All I can report is what I’ve seen as an ex-teacher, and what SSRS told me himself about the effects of the Kriya:

        I have personally had someone lose consciousness during a course, and turn grey. I was alarmed, and didn’t know what to do, as the instruction was to remember SSRS, and say a particular phrase into the person’s ear. I did that, not feeling totally confident, as the person looked dead and had stopped breathing. It was terrifying. After some time, this person did regain consciousness, and reported having seen a bright white light, and was attracted to it and then decided against it, and then slowly realized being in a course, etc. (The whispering of the particular phrase, by the way did not restore the consciousness — nothing happened for several minutes.) That was one of the last courses I taught because I was afraid of harming anyone, and told SSRS this as well later on. He said that his Grace had saved the life. He then went on to tell me that a senior teacher at that time(whom I believe has also left the organization now) had actually died while doing the Kriya, and, according to SSRS’s own words to me, was ‘brought back to life’ by him (SSRS). This was even more alarming to me. I asked him what if that happened and he was not there? What could be done? When I did teach after this, I was sure to emphasize that people should not breathe at all forcefully, and to be certain, no matter the size of the gathering, that I watched to see if anyone began doing intense breathing, and then would quietly tell them to breath ‘softly’. I just didn’t want anyone to die! I also witnessed someone during a “MahaKriya” collapse, and SSRS first sent other teachers over to the person, and then he himself stood over the person looking very concerned and helpless. That was it for me — no more teaching. The person did recover, but was aided by a medical doctor.

        Again, I am not a doctor. But I don’t need to be a doctor to know that these incidents could not be so rare, given the number of people being taught worldwide. If SSRS himself had someone die, then who else has had a close call and just didn’t see it, or report it or is hiding it? We’ll probably never know. I only know my own scary experiences and the very scary story told to me by SSRS himself.

        For these reasons, I don’t consider the SK safe at all, and I don’t care which doctor or study says it is. My own MD says that it’s totally unsafe (I demonstrated the basic breathing very briefly and then told the length of time it’s done).

        I do believe in such a thing as the Guru’s Grace. I do not believe that it flows through the SK tape, or that it flows during home kriya. Having totally believed in SSRS, and having had many terrible experiences, including physical ones from the SK, while supposedly being under his “Grace”, I concluded, after some time, that he was an accomplished Siddha, but not a Guru. A talented man, but not a master. This is my opinion based on my personal experience with him and the SK and teaching. Anyone else is free to believe whatever they want. That people presently involved in AOL in a peripheral way, not having been teachers, not having known SSRS very well yet, have other opinions, well, that is certainly their right. They will have to just find out the hard way, by which time, maybe their career will be gone, or altered irrevocably (as some of the senior teachers you can see today near SSRS), and by then they will be so invested in AOL and SSRS that they can’t walk away as many of us have. That’s their decision, and their life. That some call reports like these and others “entertainment” proves how little they know about what can and has and will probably continue to happen as a result of association with SSRS

      • stupidseeker permalink
        July 30, 2011 6:57 am

        My sister during her initiation into the SKY lost consciousness during the rapid breathing cycle, right in front of the teachers eyes. She was unconscious for about five minutes before she revived while the teacher looked on, telling everybody it was the beneficial effect of the kriya. Later she told us about feeling lightheaded and seeing “lights” before she passed out.
        She never did the kriya even once after that evening class which took place about sixteen yrs back.

    • stupidseeker permalink
      July 22, 2011 2:44 pm

      tut tut tut harshal. You have your customary “eastern serenity” reputation to keep up.

    • Anonymous permalink
      July 22, 2011 6:19 pm

      Looks like Physiological alkalosis is a term that Harshal has coined for this post. And it does not exist.

  3. Harshal permalink
    July 22, 2011 12:19 pm

    @nagesh: you are creating a hypothesis based on your observations, however you are passing this hypothesis as truth. It could just be an observer bias. You will have to ask questions like these

    1) over what percent of long term practitioners had the problems you mentioned
    2) are those who you observed representative of the whole population i.e is there a generalizability
    3)is there difference between those who have the effect and those who do not have it statistically significantly different?
    and so on..

    So don’t just make up stuff. You cannot just conclude that ‘it leads to pathology’. Especially when there is no evidence to show that. What you are saying right now is equivalent to saying- “most of the people who breath die” .If you did this to some corporate they will sue you till hell.

    • Anonymous permalink
      July 22, 2011 6:05 pm

      The fact is there is increasing chatter of adverse side-effects with respect to SK not only here but more problematic there are increasing grumblings among those in the periphery of AOL. As with any treatment (therapy, drug, etc.) when reports of adverse effects begin to bubble up the responsible and eventually business-wise action is investigation not blanketed denial of the complaints by the purveyor of the treatment. You are correct in bringing up the specter of legal recourse; however, given the staunchly defended copyright/patent ties of SK to the AOL corporation it may just be AOL who is eventually sued. This is not at all far-fetched or without precedent in the US and Europe. One of the most interesting facts about SK is the one that many of the very senior people in AOL do not practice it; This is something that is true and a sort of open-secret in certain AOL circles. Make your own deductions.

    • Dayalu permalink
      July 23, 2011 5:44 pm

      ” You will have to ask questions like these
      1) over what percent ………………
      2) are those who you ………………………………..
      3)is there difference between ……………………..?”

      This nincompoop does not understand that the onus of answering these questions is on AOL and SSRS who teach SK and mint money out of it. The fact that people from all over the world have reported getting sick after practicing SK is sufficient for a layman to look at the technique with suspicion. The responsibility of tracking those adverse effects and clearing the name of SK is on AOL………. Pinheads don’t get it

    • Nagesh permalink
      July 25, 2011 8:19 am

      AOL teaching sudarshan kriya is based on a false hypothesis that sudarshan kriya is a solution for all things from disease to divinity. However my experience and observations have proved it otherwise. As teachers we used to blindly repeat this propoganda and in turn this has harmed many many people.
      I was one of the first teachers in AOL. After having taught and experienced Sudarshan Kriya for more than seven years in the 90s, I can very confidently claim that it has harmed more people than done good. A real impartial scientific study will completely expose this. Not the bogus scientific research sponsored by AOL. Most of these research was done with a conclusion in mind by paid so called researchers. This was the same group of crooks who proclaimed the so called ‘Maharishi effect’ and the bogus reports on TM. Ravi just inherited this.
      Most of the good effects claimed were hype created through propoganda. I personally know many long term practitioners who took all the propoganda seriously and they have ended up with all kinds of diseases. In my experience as a teacher and assisting other teachers, I have found that not more than 1% of the people who take up AOL continue the practice of sudarshan kriya. This is because their body rejects this so called getting into natural rhythm. None of the old timers I know practice kriya including many of your AOL ‘Staars’. This I know from personal experience.

  4. exaolteacher permalink
    July 22, 2011 2:35 pm

    I also know a lot of cases who developed similar problems as mentioned by Nagesh. In fact I have also found that some female practitioners had developed problem in conceiving and in several cases also reaching early menopause. When I spoke to some so called senior teacher regarding this problem they told me that it is all due to divine plan . These SK practitioners are here on earth to serve the master rather than bearing child.

    • The Doctor permalink
      July 23, 2011 11:07 pm

      I met a European girl on Part 2 course who was an AoL teacher, and during a “group share” session the she told us that she desperately wanted to have a baby but that “Guruji won’t let me.” She was so sad when she told us this, and it was one of the biggest red flags for me early on, yet afterwards I just forgot about it. But then I saw the same thing written on KLIM’s blog (I think it was here), and now your comment as well, it’s quite scary the power SSRS has over his teachers.

  5. Harshal permalink
    July 22, 2011 2:50 pm

    ” I have also found that some female practitioners had developed problem in conceiving and in several cases also reaching early menopause”

    amazing information! What else happens? baldness? premature ejaculations? HIV? gonorrhoea?

    Just shows how stupid the anti-aol people are!

    • user permalink
      July 22, 2011 6:52 pm

      i am surprised to read Harshals comments. that blows my image of a medical doctor..
      possibly he is really doing a timepass as he says…i wonder if he really is concerned about aol, or about any person in a favor or against aol. Doesn’t seem that his comments bring any dignity to AOL or ssrs. doesnt look like a sincere aoler. most of aolers i personally met were nice..

      • Jr. permalink
        July 22, 2011 7:22 pm

        . I’m assuming Doctor was being sarcastic. I don’t believe Harshal is a doctor. How can someone who can’t comprehend simple sentences be a doctor?

  6. Anonymous permalink
    July 22, 2011 6:24 pm

    Looks like Harshal coined the term “Physiological alkalosis” for this post just now – “just like you do not undersand the difference between physiological alkalosis and pathological alkalosis”… Since it has come through the mouths of an AOLer and since it is caused by SK, the centuries old medical terminology needs to be rewritten according to Harshie…

    • harshal permalink
      July 22, 2011 8:28 pm

      can’t go beyond sencond or third page of google? search a little more.

      • Anonymous permalink
        July 25, 2011 7:15 pm

        dude… i am researcher holding a medical degree + masters and a PhD and 4 yrs of work experience… there is no term as “physiological alkalosis”… either your complete objective here is to insult the knowledge of the learned or you are talking out of your south side, when you are facing the north

  7. harshal permalink
    July 22, 2011 6:56 pm

    “most of aolers i personally met were nice”

    I agree. They are nice people, unlike the people here. Time and again I have said I do not represent AOL. If you dont believe it, its your problem.

    If it is a spade , I will call it a fu**ing spade!

  8. harshal permalink
    July 22, 2011 8:51 pm

    “I’m assuming Doctor was being sarcastic”

    I hope he was. This doctor is metally unstable. First she thought I was a AOL teacher, now she thinks I am a doctor, next she will think I am martian.

  9. exaolteacher permalink
    July 23, 2011 2:51 am

    one must understand the anxiety of poor Harshal. as i mentioned some time back , Harshal’s posting in this blog is a source of recognition with in aol. he has been given a job of CRM job by aol which allows him to computer access throughout the day that also explains number of post in a day. if he become jobless who would give him job on the basis of experience with aol. but i also must say that he has been very successful in distracting people attention from facts provided in the blog to his stupid arguments.

    • Jr. permalink
      July 23, 2011 3:17 am

      His comments alone have likely saved thousands of people from AOL. Harshy always asks for proof, but all anyone with common sense needs is to look at his behavior to see the negative side effects of AOL. 😉

      It is very hard indeed to learn the organization you are in is a cult and the master is not what you thought he was. Harshal is going through this rough tie right now. That is why he is here lashing out at people in rage.

    • The Doctor permalink
      July 23, 2011 11:24 pm

      “but i also must say that he has been very successful in distracting people attention from facts provided in the blog to his stupid arguments.”

      I doubt it. When I started reading KLIM’s blog I was very much still in AoL and desperate to prove KLIM and all those writing against AoL wrong. Even back then fanatical pro-AoLers were leaving abusive comments, and even then they had no substance to them whatsoever. They were actually one of the factors that pushed me further away from AoL and made me want to read more of what KLIM had written, because it was obvious that people wouldn’t get that angry over something unless there was some element of truth to what was being said and they didn’t want this truth to get out. Otherwise they wouldn’t have wasted their time there. And eventually I came to realize that many of the questionable experiences I had finally started to make sense in light of what I was learning through KLIM’s blog.

      The same will happen for anyone visiting this blog, and no amount of noise Harshal tries to make will distract people from what is written here. They will read whatever they need to, do their own research, and make up their own minds.

      • Anonymous permalink
        July 24, 2011 7:04 pm

        There you go, true with me as well

      • Anonymous permalink
        July 24, 2011 11:12 pm

        Same here and with others I know. It is as if one already sensed something was not quite right with AOL but kept fighting it until you could no longer deny the severe problems and abuse. Definitely the blogs have had and are having an impact – an impact that is becoming exponential.

  10. Anon permalink
    July 23, 2011 7:31 am

    @anonymous
    “I concluded, after some time, that he was an accomplished Siddha, but not a Guru.”

    What made you to conclude he was an accomplised Siddha?
    Have you experienced his siddhis first hand?

  11. Anonymous permalink
    July 24, 2011 12:01 am

    @Harshal: “just like you do not undersand the difference between physiological alkalosis and pathological alkalosis”

    From your original comments: “Jankiram says there is no mystical meaning behind tingling. There is’int. It is just the respiratory alkolosis which causes it. I know that , most of the people know it and i realized that when i did the SK for the first time.”

    In other words by YOUR own admission the SYMPTOMS are exactly the same, and that’s all that matters here. It was a clever attempt to try to draw attention from the real issue here, but you’ve failed drastically.

    What’s the real issue? It’s that you made a huge blunder when you left that comment on the blog admitting to the fact that kriya causes respiratory alakalosis, and your masters told you to clean up the mess shortly after they read the post. You had to quickly think of some way to rectify your mistake, and this is the only thing you could think of at short notice. What you don’t realize is that most of us have access to doctors and can very easily verify all these things ourselves, so it’s amazing you even tried this.

    I also love your abusive tone here, as if somehow thought that it would add weight to your explanations? And allso nice how you ignored all the other points that were raised in “Doctor’s” post hoping that writing this would somehow draw attention away from them. Well it hasn’t.

  12. Harshal permalink
    July 24, 2011 5:30 pm

    “It’s that you made a huge blunder when you left that comment on the blog”

    Yes. Cynical people like you can twist and turn everything. Doctor did not raise any points in her post. She only wanted some material so that this blog can again take the anti-AOL route. Anyone who reads these post will realize that you guys are idiots who pretend to be experts on medical research by reading Wikipedia.

    • Anonymous permalink
      July 24, 2011 11:19 pm

      Really? So you think/believe that it is medically prudent to subject everyone to regular respiratory alkalosis? Interesting.

    • The Doctor permalink
      July 25, 2011 3:41 pm

      Doctor did not raise any points in her post.

      Except for the 10 or so questions at the end of the article, all of which you’ve completely ignored.

      Just like the time you ignored the questions I posed about why on the one hand AoL tell people SK has no negative side effects, when in the same breath they tell people that any unpleasant sensations they experience are just toxins being released or “bad karma being removed”. All these points are still outstanding and need to be answered, since they cast serious doubts about both the safety of SK and the now apparent deceptions which Art of Living uses to market it. It seems that you yourself are a part of this same deception.

      • Anonymous permalink
        October 3, 2011 5:40 pm

        We miss you here Harshal

  13. Harshal permalink
    July 25, 2011 9:14 am

    So you think/believe that it is medically prudent to subject everyone to regular respiratory alkalosis?

    Really? Do you think it is medically prudent for everyone to exercise everyday? Because when you go for a jog, you are taking in all that O2 and washing out CO2 and causing respiratory alkalosis.

    • anonymous permalink
      July 25, 2011 5:46 pm

      I do exercise everyday (running) and have never had tingling in my hands, numbness, lightheadedness, or any of the other awful sensations that are passed off as “release of toxins” during the SK.

      It’s impossible for me to see any similarity between exercising and SK. They produce totally different results. I feel good when I run, with no side effects. I felt horrible during the SK, with the above “explained away” sensations.

    • Anonymous permalink
      July 25, 2011 11:07 pm

      Really? So in a “jog” your pCO2 is being lowered and your blood pH increased just as in SK? Really interesting.

  14. stupidseeker permalink
    July 25, 2011 3:22 pm

    Dear All,
    The following link leads to the CV of Dr. Vedamurtachar, the leading investigator in janakiramaih’s team. Vedamurtachar learnt the SKY and other yoga from AOL in 1992-1994 and then did his PhD from NIMHANS and evaluated the SKY in depression.
    http://www.nimhans.kar.nic.in/deaddiction/CAM/CV_Dr_vedamurthachar.pdf
    Furthermore another researcher from AIIMS whose references are to be found in plentiful on the http://www.aolresearch.org is Dr. Vinod Kochupillai is a devoted follower of HHSSRS, You can see her testimonial here.
    http://www.lifepositive.com/artofliving/test.asp
    Yet another researcher who has contributed prolifically is Dr. Fahri Saatcioglu from Norway who is an art of living instructor and the Norway head of the AOL University.
    http://www.mn.uio.no/imbv/personer/vit/fahris/index.html
    http://www.aoluniversity.org/contact.html
    Together these three researchers have contributed the bulk of the research done on the SKY. Much of the research, especially that done by Dr. Kochupillai is only reported in inhouse journals of her institute for some reason and is yet to be peer reviewed, and that which is, frankly admits to the lack of follow up and double blinding, and none of it is claimed to be conclusive and all the three investigators are deeply involved with AOL. Almost no independent peer reviewed research on the SKY has been reported apart from some abstracts which list out “potential” health benefits of the SKY and yoga in general.

    • Harshal permalink
      July 26, 2011 10:41 am

      ” Almost no independent peer reviewed research on the SKY has been reported apart from some abstracts which list out “potential” health benefits of the SKY and yoga in general”

      LOL. All of it is peer-reviewed and on NIH website.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=sudarshan%20kriya

      • stupidseeker permalink
        July 30, 2011 6:27 am

        The search word “aerobics” in the NIH owned site, http://www.pubmed.gov generated the following hits.(n=202970)

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=aerobics%20

        Even if a fraction of the published material is true about the benefits of aerobics, it would still show that aerobics is better than SKY , and equal to it at the very very least.

        And then how to prove the claim that SKY can lead to “enlightenment ” when ravi shankar doesn’t have a standard answer to what “enlightenment” is??

        I’m wondereing if I did the right thing by leading the likes of you to the pubmed.gov website.

  15. The Doctor permalink
    July 25, 2011 3:48 pm

    Because when you go for a jog, you are taking in all that O2 and washing out CO2 and causing respiratory alkalosis.

    This simply isn’t true. When you breathe normally you are taking in O2 and releasing CO2, but this doesn’t mean that normal breathing “causes respiratory alkalosis”.

    When you perform aerobic exercise, of which jogging is an example, your cells burn oxygen faster in order to release energy required for exercising, and this in turn creates more carbon dioxide as a waste product. In the brain, the medulla detects this increase in CO2 and increases the respiratory rate, which increases the oxygen intake required by the cells and also ensures that the excess CO2 is released in proportion to the rate at which it is produced. This last part is crucial here, since it means that the overall partial CO2 in the blood remains unchanged. As such, aerobic exercise does NOT constitute respiratory alkalosis.

    On the other hand, when you perform SK (hyperventilation), you aren’t actually performing any exercise at all – you are simply overbreathing. What this means is that you are forcing CO2 out of your lungs in the absense of any physiological need to do so, since your body isn’t actually producing any excess CO2 in the first place. This results in a lowering of the partial CO2 in the lungs, which gives rise to respiratory alkalosis.

    Is it just a pure coincidence that the symptoms of respiratory alkalosis are EXACTLY the same as those which practitioners of SK experience? Could this be part of the reason why AoL tell participants not to discuss what happens to them during SK with others, since they may actually start to realize that in fact what they are experiencing is harmful?

    • Harshal permalink
      July 25, 2011 9:33 pm

      first of all there is no such thing as “aerobic exercise”. Mostly both anaerobic and aerobic exercise occur simultaneously. Only for very very small lengths of time it is aerobic(in well trained athletes) in the beginning. There will always be a production of lactic acid ii most exercise and body will neutralize the acid by respiratory alkalosis. Have you wondered why you breath like a puff like a dog after a run? It is your body doing respiratory alkalosis to neutralize acid.This idiot doctor is reading random articles on wiki and posting non-sense here.

      Second, SK is not hyperventilation. Hyperventilation is not rhythmic and any one who does SK knows that the small cycles balances the large cycles. Have you ever seen a patient hyperventilating? If you have then you will know that SK is not hyperventilation.

      Third, Respiratory alkalosis can be caused by hyperventilation however, this idiot thinks that only hyperventilation can cause respiratory alkalosis. No. Anything which increases oxygenation of the body will cause respiratory alkalosis(like normal deep breaths, ujjayi breaths). Normally in physiological healthy states respiratory alkalosis can never be harmful. It just means that the body has enough oxygen and the respiratory chain in mitochondria is working at its most efficient level. There is adequate O2 everywhere. Hence many people who do pranayamas get benefits out of ischemic conditions-like ischemic heart diseases.

      This iditot doctor has himself confessed that SK improved his health drastically- however she doesnt mind spreading half-baked false, fake information about SK. Shame on you and your life doc. Who are you fooling? only yourself.

  16. user permalink
    July 25, 2011 4:44 pm

    when i was first told about the sk, i doubed it..but i waited till i did it myself..many times.
    unfortunately we are all limited in knowledge..we are not fool proof. some of us can detect shortcomings in one field, some in others…statistically there are a lot of people who dont see the lies in sk, and there are people who dont see the lies in other stuff we face daily…

    well I always found it too hard to believe in any guru…though i have been kind of searching…for truth, peace, guru, god etc etc…but my present state is a kind of given up..there are things where success rate is much higher than in searching for all these…

    I am technically good educated. i will keep my doubt open if somebody tells me “it came to him like a poem, and he started teaching it…

    this has been mentioned many times that similar kriyas are availabe elsewhere (conventional yoga, osho, premrawat etc etc. everyone has their versions..)..

    what is unique about sk?..no one cleary knows, except for the fact that it came from ssrs (and i guess he has some kind of copyright on that..thats definitely unique about it!)

    from the way srs talks about some scientific stuff, where he has apprantly little knowledge (despite his physics degree), i cant believe whatever he or anyone else claims about sk.
    (and unfortunately i also observed that with osho and others, who otherwise, i enjoyed listening to..)

    [ but….I must say i have been helped by aol in bad times..so i am not all negative about aol and ssrs…aol or ssrs never appealed to me that much so i never went deep into it….although i was pushed like many of us have faced…
    but despite my getting profited by aol, i see that what they spread is not all true or tested. and this includes sk….and i think it could have done harm to my family´s life, if i had stayed there long (no proof….just a gut feeling ]

    its something similar to baba ramdev claiming to cure certain diseases with yoga… (i respect him for his contribution in spreading yoga…but i cant belive all that he is saying…)

    i never did sk at home…i was never botherd by it too much…but when i see what aol is saying about it, i do get concerned…that hey…..dont speard waht you believe…or what you want to believe…sk may be good or very good…but it may also be bad or very bad under certain situations…

    no one in a pharma company would jump at the discovery of a new molecule and say that it cures all…tests must be done…

    and even if sk was revealed to srs by god. like say a drug molecule being given by god to a biologist.. , did god not tell ssrs when and how to use it…when not to use it, and what exactly are the benifits…., if not then aol should not claim all that..because neither god nor any strict scientific tests tell that. and if god did tell ssrs about the benifits and precautionary measures on sk, then srs/aol shold say those words ONLY and a clear “we dont know” before and after THAT.

    • You am I permalink
      July 25, 2011 6:42 pm

      *kindly note: Hatha Yoga Pradipka is written for the renunciates [sanyasis] – so many dos and donts in the text don’t apply to a contemporary worldly mortal

  17. You am I permalink
    July 25, 2011 6:30 pm

    its something similar to baba ramdev claiming to cure certain diseases with yoga… (i respect him for his contribution in spreading yoga…but i cant belive all that he is saying…)

    Hatha Yoga [ physical yoga postures(asanas) + breathing exercises(pranayama) + 4 others not practiced in contemporary HY ] demands discipline and discretion.Any body interested in HY MUST first read it’s original 15th century manual – the Hatha Yoga Pradipika[ trans here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/hyp/hyp03.htm ] for two reasons

    1. You will gain a theoretical [of course ,the real thing must be done under an expert’s supervision only] understanding of the authentic and approved techniques of the masters The take away is that if your cool yoga guru is teaching any innovation or corruption of the method of the masters – you would be forewarned that you are not being taught BUT experimented upon.

    2.You will know the exact steps and time limits of the asanas or pranayamas.This again protects you from overdoing a posture or breathing exercises and damaging yourself.Remember, , this 15th century text gives a complete lineage of masters who have been practicing this yoga since time memorial- that gives more credibility to exercises suggested in the text

    Now to Baba Ramdev’s yoga, i see tsome distinct positives

    a) He has not corrupted or twisted the age old tradition of HY . So the asanas and pranayamas that he teaches are in sync with the tradition and hence more reliable.that said, his suggestion that almost anybody can do prayanama can be debated.

    b) His yoga is not his yoga(it;s age old traditional yoga), it’ss telecast free of cost and crores of people start their yoga day with ramdev baba instructing live on TV.

    c).The asanas do seem to work wonders. IIT techie cures himself of cancer ! [though this must be researched..but here’s him giving an open testimony]
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/hyp/hyp03.htm

    • user permalink
      July 26, 2011 3:12 pm

      thanks for details, i didnt mean to doubt all of baba ramdevs yoga.. as you and stupiseeker also noticed its about few of his claims that i fail to accept as such.
      (also i am no expert in this field..so cant really approve of disapprove stuff….can doubt them at the most ;))

  18. You am I permalink
    July 25, 2011 6:33 pm

    *iit student cured of cancer by baba ramdev free yoga on TV [ must be researched , but here’s his testimony]

    • July 26, 2011 8:31 pm

      “*iit student cured of cancer by baba ramdev free yoga on TV”

      Baba Kamdev shud let doctors examine the student.
      have u seen this blog by Chris Mooney?

      “Why The Scientifically Literate Can Believe Silly Things”

      If you understand motivated reasoning, then you understand that high levels of knowledge, education, and sophistication are no defense against wrongheaded views like climate change denial and anti-evolutionism. What I’ll call “sophistication” may even make these phenomena worse, at least among those with deeply ideological or religious views.

      The reason is that when we “reason” in areas where we have strong beliefs, our emotions come first and then we rationalize our pre-existing views. And those better at generating self-affirming arguments will be better rationalizers, will fall in love with their own seemingly brilliant arguments, and their minds will become harder to change (but they’ll love to argue).

      http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/26/knowledge-versus-belief-why-the-scientifically-literate-can-believe-silly-things/

      • You am I permalink
        July 30, 2011 11:40 am

        @monkey

        you dint read my full response.I said that this testimony must be validated scientifically.

        as far as motives overriding reason are concerned, they apply to all including the pastors of the religion of science

  19. stupidseeker permalink
    July 26, 2011 3:18 am

    @You am I permalink

    Good you admitted it has to be researched. Don’t know otherwise whether in the lingo of ramdev a testimonial may actually constitute research.

  20. stupidseeker permalink
    July 26, 2011 3:21 am

    And its curious you show the testimonial of an IIT student, since you mentioned earlier that IIT’s produce the best empiricial minds in the country ?
    I’m sure numerous other testimonials abound of the miraculous cures which have been effected by ramdev style yoga.
    Ofcourse I’m sure that it wouldn’t have to do with the bling value of an IIT guy’s testimonial.

    • You am I permalink
      July 26, 2011 11:33 am

      @stupidseeker

      I was responding to a techie and hence the testimony of a techie. read no more no less

      • stupidseeker permalink
        July 30, 2011 2:47 pm

        So what should I as a boozing, beef eating, Pseudo secular, pseudo scientific low caste covert read it as ????

        Or am I going to miss the point again, just like I’m going to miss the “enlightenment” train, the very one on which you are board zooming towards your “destination”. Hope you will be around to “enlighten” me.

      • You am I permalink
        July 30, 2011 5:49 pm

        @stupidseeker

        you know i have the answers, you also know you don’t need them right now.

        so enjoy your beef and booze ..enlightenment aint half that good

    • You am I permalink
      July 26, 2011 11:40 am

      @stupidseeker

      The response was to a techie and hence the testimony of a techie. read no more no less

      • stupidseeker permalink
        July 31, 2011 7:49 am

        You am I permalink
        July 30, 2011 5:49 pm
        @stupidseeker

        you know i have the answers, you also know you don’t need them right now.

        I thought your declaration of “enlightenment” took a long time in the coming. But in any case, better late than never.

      • You am I permalink
        July 31, 2011 8:04 am

        @stupidseeker

        lolz pastor! the dangers with your kinds is that if “i” say that “i am” enlightened , you would be ready with your axe to chop my head off because you probably read somewhere “if you find the Buddha , kill him”

        given your bovine intellect, i would refrain from claiming anything. why don;t you shoot your questions?

  21. stupidseeker permalink
    July 26, 2011 3:24 am

    BTW apart from cancer baba ramdev can also “cure ” hair loss, provided you are willing to take the risk of getting your throat choked on his medicine.
    http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/15/2011051620110516033811382ad49a8b/Baba-Ramdev%E2%80%99s-cure-for-hair-loss-blocks-woman%E2%80%99s-food-pipe.html

  22. stupidseeker permalink
    July 26, 2011 3:54 am

    @you Am I,

    Indian medical association (IMA) slams ramdev over his claims of curing evrything from cancer to diabetes.:
    http://www.hindu.com/2011/06/11/stories/2011061156240200.htm

    Government of india health minister slams ramdev over claims of curing cancer and AIDS.
    http://knowyoga.org/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=43&comments_parentId=835&comments_maxComments=1&comments_style=commentStyle_threaded

    • You am I permalink
      July 26, 2011 11:38 am

      @stupidseeker

      as i said , these very histrionics of Baba Ramdev must be checked. Otherwise he is fine gentlemen.

      on a digressionary note , the drug industry-doctor cartel’s rants must not be taken at face value always[ no conflict on the subject issue though]

      • Harshal permalink
        July 26, 2011 1:31 pm

        “these very histrionics of Baba Ramdev must be checked. Otherwise he is fine gentlemen”

        I think he has probably done more work than any other yogi to spread yoga and the resultant health benefits of it. It is incredible how he has helped so so many people. what is disease afterall- it is just a psychological stress manifesting as cellular stress. You remove stress with these yogic practices, have some little faith and you will see miracles.

      • You am I permalink
        July 26, 2011 2:42 pm

        Namaste Harshall

        I am not saying that Yoga is incapable of addressing these diseases.

        what i am saying is that the scientific community has every right to object to His statements that are not backed by research.He should avoid sweeping statements ..thats all.

      • Original Anonymous permalink
        July 27, 2011 5:34 am

        We should not debunk and try to rubbish everything Yogic and Hindu. As far as I see the above case of the IIT guy seems genuine to me.

        It would be better if the blog focuses on the real issues rather than try and rubbish everything that is Hindu, Yogic and/or from the Art of Living.

        Baba Ramdev and Sri Sri teach spiritual practices which have a lot of benefits. But too much of nectar also is poisonous. So may be too much of Kapalbhaatis and Ayurvedic medicines may also cause a little harm. But so do the modern medicines too. The science of Ayurveda has its roots in the ancient wisdom of the Rishis who were known to be very holistic in their thought process.

        The last few posts especially one by Manu Joseph has been mindless bashing of the Hindu culture and nothing else.

        Would request the Blog owners, readers and contributors to post genuine problems they have faced within the organization and not mindlessly accuse everything Hindu and Yogic. This will helpful for both the blog and for the people who are trying to evaluate the Art of Living.

      • stupidseeker permalink
        July 30, 2011 4:49 am

        A “fine gentleman” who claims to cure everything from cancer to diabetes, the terms, which he probably learnt from scientific therapy itself.

      • You am I permalink
        July 30, 2011 10:00 am

        @stupidseeker

        diabetes is called madhumeh in sanskrit and cancer is called arbudam

        this is mentioned in ayurveda texts that date back to the times when the ancestors of the fathers of modern medicine were hanging on trees

  23. stupidseeker permalink
    July 26, 2011 5:37 am

    Hyperventilation caused by overbreathing may provoke epileptic seizures in seizure susceptible individuals.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1464153/pdf/epc6-076.pdf

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15144426

  24. Harshal permalink
    July 26, 2011 1:34 pm

    @stupidseeker: Do you even read the links you post? Or are you just trying to justfiy your name?

    • stupidseeker permalink
      July 30, 2011 7:30 am

      Whats your take on the links I gave harshal, since you so forcefully emphasised that you read them.??

  25. Harshal permalink
    July 26, 2011 3:54 pm

    “what i am saying is that the scientific community has every right to object to His statements that are not backed by research”

    agree completely.

    However, bible thumpers like StupidS use their pseudo-scientific rationalism to debunk anything which is closely or remotely related to Hinduism.

    • stupidseeker permalink
      July 30, 2011 4:46 am

      So go find some endosulfan to spray down converted mosquitoes like me, just make sure it doesnt fall on your wife and kids.

      • ano permalink
        March 26, 2012 12:22 pm

        this person is completely irrational and stupid

  26. Anonymous permalink
    July 26, 2011 5:18 pm

    “However, bible thumpers like StupidS use their pseudo-scientific rationalism to debunk anything which is closely or remotely related to Hinduism.”

    Irrelevant comment out of context in an attempt to sidetrack issues away from AOL into religious debate.

  27. Anonymous permalink
    July 26, 2011 5:23 pm

    CBI is on the lookout for Balakrishna who’s Baba Ramdev’s prominent aide after concluding that forged documents were submitted by him in obtaining Indian Passport.

    Will they similarly investigate Ravi Shankar’s advanced degrees in Physics and Vedic Sciences at the age of 17.

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/lookout-notice-for-ramdev-aide/822351/

  28. Anonymous permalink
    July 28, 2011 12:33 pm

    Hi All,

    Im a AOL follower for past 8 years.. i hav achived lot of benifits and seen people got cured of deadly diseases on my own eyes.

    Look frenz i see my teacher instructing ppl properly.. yet i find some people do thing wrong any complain. i see teachers telling people to follow the rythm of SK and not to do it in force.. by yet ppl do it forcefully without hearing to them..

    when it comes to yoga, if u dont do it properlty it will have adverse effect..

    teachers ask ppl to do once a day.. but ppl after enjoying the benifts do it twice and get affected..

    there was even an incident even in my experince where a participent started turning blue when doing ‘Bastrika’, Teacher stopped him immediatly and didnt allow him to do SK ( Later came to know tat he was having heart problem). Then instructed him to do Ugai Breath alone for a period of time and after regular follow up made him to do SK and he got completely cured (Supposed to be dead in a month befor coming to course as said by his son who was a doctor, He was not even able to claim stairs when coming to course.. he s fine now). So please follow proper what is thought.

    I even find ppl over doin the count.. Pls keep in Mind.. all cant be cured too..

    I found some comment like not getting pregnent.. See teacher even instruct ladies not to do certain prac.. but if they do it they have to face it..

    • Original Anonymous permalink
      July 28, 2011 4:44 pm

      I agree. I have seen many people doing the Kriya very vigorously, and over doing the practices such as Padma Sadhana. I too used to over do some of the practices especially the heavy breathing (i started doing a lot of Kapalbhaatis from Sri Sri Yoga along with the Padmasadhana and the Kriya) and hence started having High Blood Pressure and Hyper tension. But I think it was because i over did the Sadhana.

    • Jr. permalink
      July 28, 2011 8:02 pm

      People can also practice it very gently and correctly and still have major health problems because of it. Just because someone is having health problems from the breathing does not mean they are doing the practices wrong.

      • ano permalink
        March 26, 2012 12:28 pm

        The real question here is how can you ascertain that it is the effect of doing these things only .it can only be said that these kriyas do not cure/stop all disease under all circumstances .

      • Jr. permalink
        March 26, 2012 4:24 pm

        “The real question here is how can you ascertain that it is the effect of doing these things only.”

        It’s obvious when your health problems go away after stopping the practice.

  29. Anonymous permalink
    July 28, 2011 11:33 pm

    In a mega course in San Jose two years back, a senior AOL teacher Sangeetha Jani asked people with heart problems, High Blood Pressure and one more problem (which I forgot), not to do the short cycles in the long kriya. This was in a part one course assisted by several other AOL teachers.

    It was surprising to know about this as it was never mentioned by other teachers in their courses.

    Another interesting fact is that Ravi Shankar himself does not do this long kriya but does other standard yogic practices. If you liken this to a Doctor who doesn’t take all the drugs he/she prescribes, then Sudharshan Kriya could be a drug.

    Almost all senior AOL teachers and most of other teachers are rarely found doing SKY. They seem to know the ill-effects.

    I am sure Ravi Shankar himself knows the dangerous sides of long kriya. That could be the reason he came up with a milder version two years back.

    It is true that many people have benefitted from Sudarshan Kriya but there are others who don’t share the ill-effects of SKY as they are probably out of AOL.

    Though it appears to be beneficial in the short term it definitely seems to be having long term problems as discussed in this blog. This is another characteristic of a drug.

    • anonymous permalink
      July 29, 2011 1:52 pm

      It appears from this post that Ravi Shankar has ceased his practice of Sudarshan Kriya? When did that happen? I have personally known him to do it, especailly after tiring travel. Does he have a heart condition now, or some other medical problem? I have not been around him in some time, so wouldn’t know about these details of his personal life. But he did do it in the past.

      I still think it is harmful to many people (including me), since I have witnessed and experienced many bad side effects from the practice, and discontinued it myself, in spite of his urging that I continue at that time. Having seen people in distress too many times while teaching, I realized it was not something that large groups of people should be doing. It could be that the pollution is too much? Or the world’s atmosphere is too much? Or that most people are not suited to this practice? It is, after all a yogic practice, and not everyone is suited to yoga (as in hatha yoga, including asanas and pranayamas and kriyas).

  30. stupidseeker permalink
    July 30, 2011 2:26 pm

    You am I PERMALINK
    July 30, 2011 10:00 am
    @stupidseeker
    diabetes is called madhumeh in sanskrit and cancer is called arbudam
    this is mentioned in ayurveda texts that date back to the times when the ancestors of the fathers of modern medicine were hanging on trees

    Don’t you think five thousand years is long enough time to observe that ants are attracted to the urine of a diabetic patient and that a palpable mass growing at a speeded rate that eventually killed the patient may represent vitiation of the flesh which was attributed to the aggravation of the “doshas”, kapha, pitta and vayu and was deemed mostly incurable.

    http://www.cancerfundamentaltruth.com/cancer_in_ancient_india.htm

    And it took the ancestors of the fathers of evidence based therapy, to walk on the earth before the role of insulin in diabetes was recognized and that diabetes could be of two types and that cancer had a cellular origin courtesy Rudolf Virchow in 1926. These have been elucidated so many times that they can now be called facts, out of the domain of “personal truths”.

    So you sure would know who to go to incase you came down with diabetes or cancer.

    • You am I permalink
      July 30, 2011 5:13 pm

      @stupidseeker

      in case of diabetes and cancer ..it’s far better to go for an Ayurveda treatment than modern killing chemos and operations…best ofcourse would be a balance of both (short term – long term combo)

      against cancer – ayurveda suggested hash oil is the best treatment – but it has been banned thanks to pharma-govt cartels across the world. In 1970s it was successfully tested on many patients in the US…but after that .. the whole thing was buried

      again ayurveda does not force you on a permanent injection business- it checks diabetes

      so ask your science cartel to come up with something smart against the 5000 year old scriptures

      • stupidseeker permalink
        July 31, 2011 6:06 am

        @You Am I,

        Forget about evidence based therapies, how would an ayurvedic physician diagnose my type of diabetes or my type of cancer in the first place.

      • You am I permalink
        July 31, 2011 8:18 am

        @stupidseeker

        do you think that the people who introduced surgery and medicine to the world would have forgotten diagnosis and prognosis ?

        go read charak samhita!

  31. Original Anonymous permalink
    August 1, 2011 5:58 am

    @Stupid Seeker

    Don’t try to rubbish the knowledge of Ayurveda which has stood the test of time.

    If you cannot comprehend or understand some thing does not mean its rubbish.

    • stupidseeker permalink
      August 1, 2011 3:22 pm

      @Original Anonymous

      True if I cannot comprehend it I must not comment on it.

      However the European Union hasn’t comprehended it either, and so have decided to ban all sales of ayruvedic medications. The very same europeans who came up with vaccines and antibiotics have failed to comprehend the “science” behind ayurvedic drugs.

      http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/ayurvedic-medicines-face-eu-banmay-1/124606/on

      So why don’t you retaliate, and not use any european medical technology including vaccines for your kids and antibiotics for your fevers. Use the ayurvedic versions of the same.

      • ano permalink
        March 26, 2012 12:30 pm

        if Europe dose not understand a thing it does not mean it is not a truth.

  32. Suneitha permalink
    August 7, 2011 9:56 am

    well@stupidseeker yes some eu countries have banned unbranded ayurveda and homeo medicines to encourage naturopathy it is not banned in uk and germany and france and sweden which have huge markets for ayurveda its banned in austria if its not manufactured in the eu.. the company called holland and barret in england is one of the largest in europe for natural remedies -if the homeo industry and naturopathy (yes uk has ayurveda courses in london school of tropical medicine) , the queen and the rest of the royal family would be in debt…and out of business.. some of the doctors at sri sri ayurveda and maharishi ayurveda are quite good and majority of them prescribe branded medicines out of what is manufactured by sri sri ayurveda.. the quality control for manufacture of ayurvedic drugs in india and uk is improving with enforcement authorities.. and ayurveda has cures for certain diseases which allopathy or maodern medicine donot have…what about modern aromatherpy and spa it all eveolved out of ayurveda only.. infact us fda has approved the ayurvedic massage of reverse pulsation therapy and marma for spine care.. us has a huge naturopathy market and in eu all copanies need are gmp certifications and licences to sell so what.. germany in eu has one of the largest manufacturing facilities for homeo and naturopathy products and herbal medicine.. so….

    • stupidseeker permalink
      August 8, 2011 12:32 pm

      @suneitha,
      which are the diseases that ayurveda cures that , evidence based therapy, does not and what is the basis for this cure ?? How can anyone diagnose disease if he hasnt any knowledge of pathology and physiology ??
      Ayurvedic massage is non invasive, does not involve administration of substances into the systemic circulation, that may potentially alter body and cellular function and is therefore treated at par with osteopathy and is hence approved ?? And as regards homeopathy, my advice to you is, please donot try it for anything worse than a common cold.

      • Dev D permalink
        August 9, 2011 9:31 am

        I have heard from some AOL insiders that Sri Sri Ayurveda medicines are sourced from a village in Kerala. This village has many ‘ayurvedic factories’ which produce the standard ayurvedic medicines like triphala, trikatu, guggulu, pure herbs etc. They sell these medicines to several organizations (like sri sri ayurveda, amrita ayurveda etc). These folks then brand these medicines as their own. Thsi is similar to outsourcing in garment manufacturing.
        Any knowledgeble people in this business please comment.

      • mallu kutty permalink
        August 9, 2011 10:03 am

        you are right most of the sri sri ayurveda medicines are sourced from thrissur… many people working in sri sri ayurveda are from kerala including the folks who does the massage, pachakarma.. kerala outsources both ayurvedic medicine and people.. you can find these people working in all ayurveda centres all over india including the big guns like ayush.. not surprising if small enterprises like sri sri ayurveda follow the same model..

  33. stupidseeker permalink
    August 7, 2011 11:55 am

    Dear All,

    In some of my interactionss with “You Am i’ he happened to mention the following:

    o the yoga sutras themselves clearly state that pranayama and exercises do not take you to the ultimate
    o indeed, that’s how “persons” clash with “persons”. “my” “degree” of ignorance is lessened by the application of “reason and logic” which shows that the breathing nirvana business is irrational . the breathing business survives because it wins over the dark ignorance embedded in abrahamic religions quite effectively

    Thus he comprehensively debunks the idea that yogic exercises and pranayama can lead to “enlightenment”. This flies in the face of what numerous “masters” have said. I’m looking for other opinions on this aspect.

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