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Why Teachers are Unqualified to Teach Sudarshan Kriya

May 26, 2012

by IO

Adyut, May 25, 2012 9:39 pm

Doesn’t AOL make course participants sign an agreement when they sign up that absolves AOL of any consequences? If this is the case, then no one could sure them for SK related damages.

Well that is true and that may be so. All participants sign something similar to the below.

“I am participating in the AOL part-1 course of my own free will. I will not make any claims on AOL and I absolve the teacher / helpers…and organizers of any blame as far as the program outcome is concerned. I will also not teach what is taught in the class without being certified and trained by AOL.”.

However, this is potentially invalid as a legal agreement due to the following

  1. Who and what is AOL ? Is it the volunteers ? Who do these volunteer’s report to ? The owners ?
  2. If so, who are the real owners of AOL ? Yes it is a volunteer run organisation and its they who put the course together. So, is it the local manager ? But then, none of them would be on the payroll of any organisation called AOL ? So who then is AOL ?
  3. Who is then legally accountable for these sessions and teachings ? Now we know they dont even have a copyright.
  4. I would think, the final entity that collects the money… right ? Now that money trail varies from state to state and country to country. Individual entities in each city/state/country are franchises with the Master AOL…but none of them will have a legal and binding agreement that says this, which they can produce in court.
  5. The transfer of monies to AOL in India are treated as donations. There is no strict accounting trails that can lead to clear audits (PLUS there is no legal relationship between the Chapter and the Principal).

What will further stand-out on closer scrutiny is the following

  1. The Group that calls themselves AOL did not fully disclose/educate potential participants about the potential pit-falls of SK.
  2. On investigation, most of the group will fall under the category of an unqualified doctor (read quack) ….as they will not have a medical background, and YET will openly will claim many cures and miracles….as told to them by others in AOL.
  3. On further investigation any published medical research on SK will easily seen to be AOL sponsored or would have a conflict of interest as the lead Researcher would have also been an AOL teacher (Dr Vinoda Kuchipillai, ex Head of Oncology, AIMS-New Delhi).

Side note : When I was an active volunteer I would recruit many of my colleagues in the office. I remember one colleague that developed some major crazy symptoms while doing SK. My colleague had not declared on their form that they were once taking medication for bi-polar activity. The sickness post SK caused them to take leave of absence for many weeks. My colleague’s boss, a foreign national then called me to directly check how qualified I was to even talk about such a subject and recruit people for a unproven program. He wanted to know, how could I talk about stress, mental health, physical health and so on. He even called me a quack and warned me to stop my recruiting activity within the office. He was right. However, my life was filled with the Grace. I continued to recruit. Then I became a teacher. Then I started to teach it.

What is interesting is the following. My own body started to reject SK within a year of me becoming a teacher. I was in a interesting quandary. I was teaching the stuff, but could not do it myself. That was hypocritical. I continued to teach though. The other good things far outweighed the few uncomfortable things I felt. I realise now, that maybe I was very very lucky and I still had some sanity intact at that time, that I managed to actually respect what my body was telling me and to not be guilty about not STAYING with the popular hype (There is nothing beyond SK, which I was also selling heavily at that time).

I remember, I sometimes had some pretty spiritually advanced people (those that had been working on themselves for very long periods…..in their own ways and were proficient in other paths). What I found strange at those times was that these people for most parts, did not have positive experiences with SK and would struggle to even finish the class.

Later on I figured out that every system leaves its miasms on participants. Some are planted deliberately…for control purposes. For AOL it is hingent on the 20-40-40 and the belief systems they propagate. These miasms are effective protectors and the liability is that the same protecting mechanism also inhibits you. Nevertheless its an energy signature. You will notice that its easy to identify an regular AOL practitioner. Its kinda evident and you know it instinctively. It is again because of the AOL miasms.

See http://www.sacredjourneyinstitute.com/html/articles/beth_thesis.html

if you want to learn more about miasms.
From what I have been able to witness from the behaviour of many many participants over many years who I know did SK regularly……they invariably seemed to end up being very weak on the “remembering things side”. (aka memory loss).

The following is my take only

This above is a very interesting thing. If your body/mind system is collectively weak on memory so are the individual cellular memories. And the body cells reproduce frequently to keep the system going. Hence when it reproduces it is not able to carry forward corrections and learnings from before….due to the memory loss. This is how our physical health actually gets impacted over the long term.

As we navigate through life, memory is important. We typically need are not very well served by the emotions that some memories bring, but we do need the memories for the learning that it brings us. We need to make comparisons and take decisions based on past experience. Imagine having your computer hard disk being wiped out little by little everyday. The document you saved yesterday, you can’t find it today. Soon, you cannot even remember that you made it. This will make your overall system slow and sloth like.

I do not have instant recall (due to the memory loss). The same knowledge now has to be repeated to me many times a day for it to take impact. Hence the need for repeated courses, year on year !!!! The dosage has just increased. And when you attend the courses it is not just the universal truths that get repeated (Such as expectations reduce joy, Accept people and situations as they are, opposite values are complementary)….bit also cleverly planted untruths and misleading data

  1. Guruji is enlightened
  2. He is Krishna
  3. Our overheads are 80%
  4. We are going to win the Nobel peace Prize
  5. We are doing seva projects all over the world…
  6. One bi-polar girl started the blog….don’t go there, its bad karma

The same thing repeated again and again mindlessly becomes you reality and the truth. Afterall, many different people from different groups and regions are saying the same thing.

Before long the following happens……

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102 Comments
  1. Uttam permalink
    May 26, 2012 7:15 am

    What do you mean when you say that “My own body started to reject SK within a year of me becoming a teacher”, if you could detail. Thanks.

  2. May 26, 2012 8:45 am

    @ Uttam

    Thank you for asking Uttam.

    I am attempting to recollect what used to happen. My body used to feel very very uneasy during the 3 stage pranayama…right upto the Kriya. In the beginning it was not like that. I used to enjoy the entire process. So, it felt very strange …that I felt this. Initially….I just could not figure out what the reason was. So, one day…I just did the Padmasaadhana and then meditated. No SK. That worked out really wonderfully for me. The uneasiness was gone. And, It was not the case that I was lazy, or I did not want to create the time, or that I did not believe in the Kriya (in fact the opposite….I was a SK evangelist at that time)….but somehow my own body was uneasy and was not up to the act. Very strange indeed. And this was after almost 2.5 years of continuous Kriya. I don’t think I missed a single day. If I think about now…..its amazing to re-collect as to even how it happened.

    For almost 8 years after that I would only meditate and do the Hatha yoga bit, I never did the SK and never shared it with anyone. However, I found that the SK worked very well for my students. So, I did not talk about it. No one would have understood anyways. It was my secret. Until now. I remember, that this has also happened to me in other ways as well.

    I was once being medicated for a particular situation a few years prior to AOL happening to me. And that time my body just refused a specific medicine after the 1st dose. Exact similar situation. A distinct uneasiness was felt and I ended up acknowledging this and paying by body’s signals due credence. I recovered very well without the medicine. Any many years later, out of curiosity,I researched the medicine a little more and found that it was a strong inhibitor for the brain, which at that time was supposed to make me feel relaxed and sleep better. Prolonged use would make one a dodo. The doctor had apparently given me that as an immediate term prescription drug because he thought it might make me sleep better.

    At the time when I did things like this…I felt that I was even being rebellious or breaking the system. Today, I see it differently…..I am so glad and happy that I backed myself and my inner knowing.

    The explanation for such occurrences can be had from the below site.

    http://coachcecily.com/tag/inner-voice/

    And even as I stopped SK…..I never once considered that it was a bad technique that might have negative effects. Just like I never once in 10 years doubted my ex-Master whether his intentions were 100% pure.

    Until something like a FLASH point……that AHA moment when the tumblers fall and you start to see another view which explains the all the events you have seen and witnessed in a much more comprehensive and complete way.

    There is much goodness in AOL even today, however its all in the individual devotee’s heart. However, the more you get deeper into AOL, at one time people just stop taking the big decisions. Everything is left to the Master. Whether designed or accidental…thats how it is. Much of the Guru stories floating around are Chinese whispers made popular by the number of times they have been repeated. I myself had a few.

    Soon, every good thing happening in your life is because of the Master. He did remind you to look at the positive side of things, However, along with that came the subtle programming that all the good things happening to you were because of him. You so start believing it that at one point the devotee actually starts to be very scared of the following

    1. The grace might stop working. let me keep doing courses and making donations.
    2. If I do not spread the knowledge I am doing my Master a disservice as he is working so hard.

    Of course he would work hard…his family makes all the money…..he gets all the power…because we give it to him……..But who does the real work…..the devotee on the street dedicating it all to his Master….and willingly doing so.

    At what cost ?

    When you are a Spiritual Master managing perceptions is also important. Why is AOL involved in so many land grabbing issues ? Why do SiSri’s family have a Antibiotics manufacturing company in Hyderabad ? Why are the financials not transparent ? Why has there been no other enlightened Master after him in the last 31 years ? How come, many of the Sr teachers act so silly and irresponsibly ? What is happening to all the Seva projects that have been claimed … How are they progressing ? Who is working for them ? Who is financing them ? For a Spiritual Master how does it matter whether someone is hie biological nephew or not ? Why celebrate only his nephew’s marriage in such pomp and splendor at the Ashram…when so many other devotees are also getting married ? How can a Spiritual Master switch stories so quickly and offer no Proof when asked about a potential assassination attempt…..a story which was initiated by HIM and by none other ? What is your excuse for not having a clean set of financials over the last 31 years ? As an enlightened person how could you make so many mistakes in your own published book (similarity between Hinduism and Islam) and get ripped apart on this very subject in a public debate. See the video on Youtube and decide for yourself, He actually published false facts and sold books. …and there are more …and more….

    The question that one needs to ask oneself……Where do I stand with such things ?…am I willing to compromise my personal integrity for the sake of associating myself with an organisation. How well do I really know this man I call my Master. Get down to the basics. Walking the talk is important.

    Be well Uttam

    • Uttam permalink
      May 28, 2012 7:43 am

      @IO: Thanks for the clarification. I had some intuition and views if you are open to hearing me. I know you are much senior than me wrt AoL, though in this birth where I have had wonderful experience and learnings for more than 44 years.

      Regarding your body rejecting SK:
      – All the processes including different yogas, pranayams, SK, meditations are like to tools in the path of spirituality.
      – These tools have a specific purpose for each person in the spiritual journey. It is like a boat for crossing a river from one shore to another and once the river is crossed, the boat is supposed to be left, not carried beyond.
      – Similarly, once the utility of a process is over, one may safely discard the same to move forward in the path. A master or ones higher consciousness can guide better regarding this.
      – In your case the purpose of SK might have got fulfilled due to which you felt you body discarding it after few years of practice.
      – This should have been discussed by you with your seniors or Guruji instead of leaving it open for doubt.

      Regarding you losing the faith:
      – The spiritual journey is filled with lot of tests and contradictions which the disciple needs to pass with faith, love and compassion.
      – Your devotion, love and compassion got overpowered by doubt, anger and hatred for the whole organization.
      – Nothing is perfect in the world. Knowledge helps us to discriminate and not blame the society or the country as a whole due to existence of few seemingly corrupt people. We cannot lose the love for our country because of existence of few corrupt politicians. We need to expose the corrupt to the competent out of our love for the country, the society or the organization.

      Regarding commercialisation of AoL:
      I shall not go into the validity of the blame or doubt but would like to highlight the following:
      – It is a fact that people benefit from the courses like Part-1, Part-2 and DSN. DSN is especially very motivating and may be compared to, rather better than any motivational programs conducted by various HR professionals for organizations.
      – The amount that AoL charges is very small compared to what the HR and yoga professionals might have charged otherwise.
      – The amount charged is minuscule compared to the benefit derived by the participant.
      – So irrespective of where the funds go, the participant is definitely in a win-win situation.

      Request to interpret my views to the extent of what is written. Please do not extrapolate assumptions for they could be totally wrong.

      • May 29, 2012 4:24 am

        @ Uttam

        I believe that we are having a dialogue here Uttam. Please allow me to respond on each point you raised based on whatever/how much ever I know at this time. I hope that its possible that you do not have a preferred outcome already from this dialogue……..ie, you have already decided that IO is wrong / mislead / has not given 100%…etc.

        If you are spontaneous and open to any outcome, then some of what I write should ideally bring your awareness to a state of high alert. But if you are already convinced that I am the one at fault…..then only time will tell. Truth will prevail. Sincere prayers for all.

        Uttam : I had some intuition and views if you are open to hearing me.

        IO : Thank you for responding and sharing back. I am reading all of what you have written, listening intently and will do my best to take them if they make sense to me.

        One important thing to know for yourself Uttam : How much of your post is based on knowing me as an individual (How old am I, Am I male or female, how smart I am ?, how intelligent I am ?, how experienced I am on the spiritual path ?, how truthful I am ?, how disciplined I am ?)….you will realise that you hardly know me.

        Hence your analysis is mostly stems from your direct experiences and very strong belief systems. I am going to put “UBS”…stands for Uttam Belief System wherever I see a strong influence of the same. Just as you are sharing your views and insight, I am also going to do the same. Hope that is OK with you. We can agree to disagree on certain points. That is perfectly OK too.

        Meanwhile I had a Qns ) Have you ever explored other paths ?

        Just FYI I have trained, studied experientially explored and practiced other very well known paths in Spirituality before AOL happened to me. AOL attracted me because of the many friends I made at that time in my life. The families, kids etc all worked well. In other paths, it was me alone and the family had a limited role. In any case I have had brilliant experiences with all of the paths I investigated. So I do have the ability to know which is milk and which is water.

        Uttam : I know you are much senior than me wrt AoL, though in this birth where I have had wonderful experience and learnings for more than 44 years.

        IO : (This is an UBS. Your intellect is working here Uttam…based on your interpretations and assessment of my writing)

        Uttam : Regarding your body rejecting SK:

        – All the processes including different yogas, pranayams, SK, meditations are like to tools in the path of spirituality.
        – These tools have a specific purpose for each person in the spiritual journey. It is like a boat for crossing a river from one shore to another and once the river is crossed, the boat is supposed to be left, not carried beyond.
        – Similarly, once the utility of a process is over, one may safely discard the same to move forward in the path. A master or ones higher consciousness can guide better regarding this.
        – In your case the purpose of SK might have got fulfilled due to which you felt you body discarding it after few years of practice.

        IO : Thank you Uttam. Just look at your comments for what they are. All of the above is standard AOL dialogue. The very same examples have been discussed many times with many teachers in my time too. You are just repeating the same for me. Since you do not really know me, it may or may not be relevant to me. The fact is that you cannot know any of this for CERTAIN. Hence, its sheer speculation on your part. You are therefore gambling with this piece of knowledge…hoping you are right.

        Please read with alertness now Uttam. When someone gambles they have a preferred outcome. In your case, you want to be right. Why ? Ask yourself this. What is it about this whole thing that makes you want to be right ? If you are wrong would there be anger ? Frustration ? Disappointment ?

        Uttam : This should have been discussed by you with your seniors or Guruji instead of leaving it open for doubt.

        IO : I had no doubt. My body rejected SK. I respect my body. I have been practicing body and mind work for a long time. I know when to back myself. Also, you seek advise from others when you have a doubt. I had no doubt. SK was not working for my body. Please read my post again. The stoppage did not bother me in any way (even with doubts). My meditations continued to be as good as always …..even better without the SK discomfort. I had been meditating 15 years prior AOL and SK….so its not like I had no experience in the matter.

        Uttam : Regarding you losing the faith:

        IO : I trusted my body. I gained faith back in myself once again. Where then is the loss of faith Uttam ?. Ultimately the spiritual journey is back to self. I came back to self. I backed myself totally.

        I guess it depends on who is looking. You are seeing it as lack of faith and you have already judged me without knowing me at all. You do have a preferred outcome ie AOL/Uttam are right and IO has been mislead by his own intellect/ego.

        Qns ) Does Uttam’s mind even allow for the potential that IO could be right and that you Uttam may be wrong ? The answer is not for me….its only for you to know Uttam.

        Uttam : –

        The spiritual journey is filled with lot of tests and contradictions which the disciple needs to pass with faith, love and compassion.

        IO : Standard AOL dialogue…..its true…..no doubt….but this dialogue is used by most AOL teachers when they cannot explain something.

        Uttam : – Your devotion, love and compassion got overpowered by doubt, anger and hatred for the whole organization.

        IO : I am smiling now Uttam. This is a very big assumption by you my dear. All I can say is that while I was in AOL I saw very little of AOL. Now that I stepped out, I can see much more of it than before. My view is more complete….much more than ever before. My reason to be in this Blog is to share the whole view with anyone that is interested. Just the exercise of describing and writing about it gives me pleasure. If people learn from it, they are welcome….I would have just reminded them of what they already know. If not, thats OK too, I had fun posting.

        I cannot understand this bit though. Why would I hate AOL ? For what ? What do I gain ? Some of my biggest gifts came to me because of AOL. Some of the best years of my life were when I was in AOL. AOL was a boat that brought me to the other side of the river. I got off. This is to quote your own example. From this side things look very different Uttam. You cannot see this until you step OFF your boat. Just do so for a few minutes and see. They you decide.

        I am not anti-AOL. I am pro-Devotee. Does this make sense to you Uttam ? The George Bush Logic is Kutark Uttam …..If you are not with me then you are against me !!!!! This is very same as the eg SriSri uses…the door half open is a door half closed…..then if the door is fully open does it mean its fully closed ? Just because I am pro-devotee does not make me anti-AOL dear Uttam. Opposite values are complementary and they ENHANCE each other. They only seem contradictory. See how you interpret this further in your own way.

        The fact that we seem to be having a dialogue from 2 opposite sides is only because we care about the same core things

        1. We care for the truth.
        2. We believe that love, not exploitation have to be the basis of relationships.
        3. We have the courage to call a spade a spade.
        4. We are ready to learn and are sincere students of life.
        5. We feel there is no need to hide anything unnecessarily.

        I relate very well to a devotee Uttam. I was a very good one for over a decade. Because I am pro-Devotee I want them to have what I did not have….better and more timely information so they can make better choices. This is called evolution. All nature works this way. To this effect, I have to expose the AOL dis-information for what it is. I do it of my own free will at my own time. If AOL would do it themselves, then I would not bother.

        I believe that everyone should be given a chance to make informed choices. They should seek and be informed to the best of their abilities. The intellect has its uses Uttam. AOL’s twisted knowledge will lead you to believe that a good intellect is actually a hindrance to your happiness. This is very wrong. Every moment in our life we make choices. You need a well developed intellect to make the right choices which lead you further in your journey. the choices have to guided by your personal values. For me one of the primary values would most definitely be integrity.

        What you think, what you say and what you do should be in alignment. And there is only 1 person that is accountable for this.The person on the path. Even the Guru cannot take responsibility for the devotee. This is every individuals direct responsibility. ONLY I am responsible for everything in my life and for all the choices I make. Period. This according to me is the best self empowerment we can all have.

        Uttam : – Nothing is perfect in the world. Knowledge helps us to discriminate and not blame the society or the country as a whole due to existence of few seemingly corrupt people. We cannot lose the love for our country because of existence of few corrupt politicians. We need to expose the corrupt to the competent out of our love for the country, the society or the organization.

        IO : I agree Uttam.

        Uttam :

        Regarding commercialisation of AoL:
        I shall not go into the validity of the blame or doubt but would like to highlight the following:
        – It is a fact that people benefit from the courses like Part-1, Part-2 and DSN. DSN is especially very motivating and may be compared to, rather better than any motivational programs conducted by various HR professionals for organizations.
        – The amount that AoL charges is very small compared to what the HR and yoga professionals might have charged otherwise.
        – The amount charged is minuscule compared to the benefit derived by the participant.
        – So irrespective of where the funds go, the participant is definitely in a win-win situation.

        Request to interpret my views to the extent of what is written. Please do not extrapolate assumptions for they could be totally wrong.

        IO : Just so you know, I was one of the volunteers that developed many of the arguments that you state above. FYI, I have raised over 10 Cr for AOL through courses and sponsorships. So, I know what I am talking about.

        One more big UBS. —- Why do you think being commercial is not good or perceived to be NOT good ? Why highlight commercialism ?

        There is nothing wrong in being commercial. You are delivering benefit / value to someone ….then please make money. And you are also using the money well….many others are being benefitted …great. Go ahead. When ordinary people actually see this happening they will come running to you with their contributions. Now, what is important here is that if you claim to be

        1. Not for Profit……THEN back it up with proof. (31 years and no such Proof).
        2. A service organisation – Then publish the project accounts for your seva. (BTW this is standard NGO practice, I am not asking for anything new)
        3. You need integrity. Declare yourself commercial. Pay taxes. Invest more in R&D and full fledged medical research of the SK. What is the problem ? All of this will work. After all there is Grace NO ?

        There are times in life when you have to make a call Uttam. Without SriSri AOL is nothing. Ask your own heart and mind….would you be in AOL if it were not for SriSri.

        I found that SriSri was lying. About many things. When i take someone for my Guru, the Guru giving me half truths is not Okay Uttam. Irrespective, he lies about many small things and that too factual things.

        1. He has lied about his age when he graduated. Said on BBC TV that he graduated when he was 17 years. All other published documentation claim that he graduated at 21. Which is true.
        2. He lied and published information about the author of the book “How to win friends and Influence people” Dale Carnegie. SriSri personally claimed that Dale Carnegie committed suicide. Not true Uttam. Check it out.
        3. He lied in a German public form that AOL course overheads are 80%. if you have organised courses you will know that its the other way around…its 20%.
        4. He lied about his close association with the Dalai lama.
        5. He lied about the number of people that came to the Silver jubilee functions.
        6. He lied about the number of villages adopted by AOL.
        7. He supports very corrupt APEX body members all over the world.
        8. He openly moves money collected by AOL into family owned private businesses (Check our Inwinex Pharma Hyderabad, its a publicly listed company where Sumeru Ayurveda is a major stakeholder)
        9. Without any proof he claimed there was an assassination attempt on him. Then he changed his story after the police put pressure.

        Are these signs of an enlightened being ? Not in my world Uttam. At least not during this journey.

        All of this will not strike you in one instance…..it takes time to notice all this. If I stayed in AOL it was because of SriSri. If I left AOL, it was also because I got to see who he really is….a bigger and more accurate picture.

        Just like we said earlier……my boat reached the other shore.

        Best wishes on your journey Uttam.

      • May 29, 2012 5:09 am

        @ Uttam

        I need to elaborate and explain my own statement a little more….

        “I guess it depends on who is looking. You are seeing it as lack of faith and you have already judged me without knowing me at all. You do have a preferred outcome ie AOL/Uttam are right and IO has been mislead by his own intellect/ego.”

        The reason you my regaining faith in myself as lack of faith in AOL / The Guru is because of the following assumption

        1. There is no better path than AOL.

        2. IO can never know better than the Guru, because the Guru is the highest source of knowledge. This may be mostly true, but there have been many moments in my own interaction with SriSri where I have been able to comprehend certain issues in a more complete way, that I have explained to him from my perspective and he then agreed to change his own views on the same subject.

        This clearly demonstrated to me, from my own live interactions with my then Guru, that the words of knowledge that come through my Guru’s body to me, should also resonate and connect deeply within me. Only then should I implement. If I cannot connect to the idea….ie Guru’s idea…..then its important to honour the disconnect / conflict and find a way to balance the situation.

        I have had many situations such as these. When there was alignment with the Guru’s voice and mine it felt great. However, such conflicts arose, after much deliberation, I chose to deliberately honour myself and back my own understanding of life, instead of feeling guilty that I am disobeying my Master.

        The position one gives the Guru, is a position we give the Guru. We do chose at sometime in our journey to follow the Master. Its a conscious choice. How, and how high is the Guru is where we decide to place them.

        AOl twists this slightly. The common folklore is that the Guru chooses you. This raises your importance and self image. There is a certain amount of EGO and Identity involved when we claim that the Guru chose me as a devotee. This feels especially great and is a deadly self esteem boost especially when the Guru is supposedly enlightened….a Krishna walking on the planet in today’s age. I have gone through this…..and felt great about it at that time.

        The above is a belief system that will serve you, until such time you start to accept AOL in it entirety. As long as you are only partial AOL (taking the good things only and ignoring the all the negative things)….this belief system will serve you very well.

        The day you wake up, realise you are a LION and declare (not to the public at large, but to yourself) ….that what I am being told and what is happening around are not the same thing……thats when the real DSN happens.

        You can run (delay)…and you can keep running (delaying), but there is nowhere to hide.

        Be truthful to yourself Uttam. If you did not have doubts (even if very small) yourself, you will not be on the BLOG. Do you have the courage / guts to directly go to SriSri and seek clarifications on your doubts…ONE to ONE. ? Lets say you did. 2 things can happen.

        1. SriSri clears all your doubts a 100%. In which case you will never need to come back to this BLOG.
        2. SriSri is not able to clear your doubts. Whats the point having a Guru that cannot quell your doubts ? You will have to drop him as your Guru.

        Here is what I think. You are scared. Because doing the above is taking responsibility for yourself. At this time you enjoy having AOL (or atleast all the good things you like in AOL) and you like coming to this BLOG. You want both. You want to be on the wall. Going either side is RISKY…as it will change your whole world. You are in fact frozen.

        Why do you come back to this BLOG Uttam ?

        Your intellect and imagination are in overdrive with justifications as to why your current preferred belief system is right. But these justifications are fast drying up. Guess what, do you think your Guru will make the right choice for you at this time ? Or do you think have to make it yourself ?……Do it with Uttam’s knowledge….Not SriSri’s knowledge.

        Enjoy the rest of your journey.

      • Uttam permalink
        May 29, 2012 12:36 pm

        @IO: That was a long clarification from you side. I respect your views.

      • VSS permalink
        May 29, 2012 12:45 pm

        @ IO

        “Just so you know, I was one of the volunteers that developed many of the arguments that you state above.”

        I feel — and this is just my personal opinion — that if you could write a post listing the most common of the “arguments” — with your insights about them — it would help many people in AoL see why they were made. Based on my observations, I feel that many in AoL view these “arguments” from only one perspective, and so, reading another perspective might help them see the complete picture.

      • Anonymous permalink
        May 30, 2012 12:21 pm

        @Uttam,

        It seems you are a person with good intentions, wanting people to regain their ‘lost faith’, feeling that those posting here have lost faith in God and Guru because they had terrible experiences with Ravi Shankar. I have not lost my faith in God or even in the concept of Guru. Nor in the scriptures. I simply came to see very clearly that the Guru should set an example for me, including having no anger or hatred to people, not being annoyed with people all the time, not being greedy, not having uncontrolled lust. When I understood, from close personal contact with Ravi Shankar and his teachings, that he did not set these examples for me, I had to leave. Although there was lots of ‘energy’, I no longer had faith that in that energy as being “divine” as so many seem to think. The fact is that a person can do a large number of pujas and acquire great attractive powers over people and transmit lots of energy without being enlightened. And even great Yogis fall. I don’t believe that Ravi Shankar started out wanting to hurt people. But I believe from my experience of him, that he fell, and fell far and hard. I would have even overlooked the horrible behavior of so many in the inner circle if he himself did not exhibit such things. In my case, I was there only for him, for enlightenment, for growth and progress, and before I finally left, I put up with many things that I now know are unnecessary humiliations, insults and abuses, thinking “oh somehow he is bestowing Grace on me by doing this….” It was not so. I am still on the path of Knowledge, and still believe that there are great gurus and masters. But after my experience with him, I would shy away from complete surrender to any one of them unless they proved to me that they were free of all the things that are already wrong with me! After all, if he has them wrong with him, how will he help me to overcome my vasanas?

  3. VSS permalink
    May 26, 2012 8:51 am

    Thank you infinitely for this phenomenally insightful post. The video is brilliantly illustrative too. I wait for your posts. I feel your knowledge of AoL is encyclopedic.

    I read the content of the so called “agreement”.

    I would appreciate it very much if you could shed some light on whether or not there are any stated “learning objectives”, a “pre-assessment”, a “post-assessment”, “feedback to participants” on learning effectiveness, and, “feedback to trainers” on training effectiveness. I am wondering as these are the standard ingredients of a typical training workshop.

    • May 27, 2012 5:06 am

      “learning objectives”, (Varies depending on the participant)…….

      a “pre-assessment”, (Only a self assessment that too not helped…neither is it systematic)

      a “post-assessment” (Self assessment)

      “feedback to participants” on learning effectiveness – No, ….participants can goof off as there is always the weekly follow-up and they are encouraged to repeat the AOL part-1 programs (usually free and if not pretty significantly discounted).

      and, “feedback to trainers” on training effectiveness. (depends on the trainer)). However, even when done, this was not very structured. It sort of came through in an experience sharing session towards the end of the program. The AOL corporate courses have this in a more structured manner.

    • May 30, 2012 3:23 am

      @ VSS

      Just so you know, I was one of the volunteers that developed many of the arguments that you state above.” I feel — and this is just my personal opinion — that if you could write a post listing the most common of the “arguments” — with your insights about them — it would help many people in AoL see why they were made. Based on my observations, I feel that many in AoL view these “arguments” from only one perspective, and so, reading another perspective might help them see the complete picture.

      I am not sure I understood your request. So, I am attempting to put my comment in context.

      What I was actually referring to are the selling arguments that Uttam used to justify the commercial / high course pricing (again thats an individual’s perception). The handling and management of this perception is clear for anybody that has been in a Sales 101 class.

      You have to remember that most devotees in AOL are good hearted and want other people to have the same goodness they experienced. However, they are pretty clueless how to communicate this others with the idea of recruiting them to do a course.

      You develop financial arguments (Just like an insurance salesman does) to make people take a course that they never knew they HAD TO TAKE.

      • VSS permalink
        June 4, 2012 4:53 am

        @ IO [May 30, 2012 3:23 am]

        I hear you clearly. I know that there are genuinely well-meaning people in AoL. I know a few of them personally and at least one who is a spectacular human being but has been “indoctrinated”. I feel, in any case, that it is possible for anyone to be spectacular.

        I did not communicate my request clearly enough — possibly because I did not understand part of what you said — or — I did not connect the dots properly.

        What I meant was that I don’t know if there is a post on this blog that demystifies the metaphors / arguments often used to justify certain types of experiences in AoL.

        For instance, you said:

        “You cannot see this until you step OFF your boat. Just do so for a few minutes and see. They you decide.”

        This, I feel, was a very powerful piece of communication. It was received well as well.

        Similarly, one argument that I have read is about how a “satguru” can behave (rather misbehave) as he pleases, and, if that makes one uncomfortable, then it’s an “ego” problem.

        Another that I have read is about writing on this blog being connected to “bad karma” or “low prana”.

        I feel that these arguments attack the innermost fears of those who are in AoL and reading this blog but not participating in discussions or expressing themselves freely.

        Since you have so much insight into AoL, I was hoping that you could address a post to those who might be reading this blog silently and demystify the things that might be told to them to discourage them from reading this blog or expressing themselves freely on this blog.

        I could be wrong but I have a feeling that you might be able to perceive what they are being told and address that powerfully and effectively — so that they might feel free to express themselves.

        I do not know if such a post already exists, hence I made the request.

  4. Anonymous permalink
    May 26, 2012 11:51 am

    I practiced SK for over a decade and now my memory is so bad that I cant recollect or even comprehend what I have read or heard. AOL friends told me, “Its because you have grown old. Think about it. You are no longer in your early 20’s” (yeah, i was almost 30 when I started to experience memory loss).

    My life is miserable now as I am not able to understand things. I cant recollect things, even simple words to hold a conversation. What I speak sounds too incoherent or at least I think so as I need to search my brain for the info.

    I have also lost the clarity of speech that I once had and also received numerous compliments for.

    After I stopped SK, there was an improvement in my memory but definitely not enough to live a normal life. Impaired memory and thereby impaired intellect has made it impossible for me to live an independent life.

    If anyone here knows a way to help me improve my memory, please share the info.

    • Jr. permalink
      May 26, 2012 6:20 pm

      I’m really sorry to hear this Anonymous. I didn’t have this same experience with memory, but I could definitely feel my critical thinking was becoming more dull with the practice of SK. Since I’ve stopped, I feel I’ve normalized, although it did take some months. My problems as I’ve stated were more fatigue and allergy issues.

      I am NO expert on this subject, but my suggestion would be to start some light exercise like jogging two miles or some other sort of cardio exercise like swimming. Some people claim this is good for the brain. Eating healthy is also always beneficial to the body and brain, if you’re not already doing that. I really do believe our bodies and brains are capable of amazing recovery, but it takes time. Most importantly, don’t lose hope. It makes me really upset to read stories like yours. I wish you the best on your recovery.

    • VSS permalink
      May 26, 2012 8:19 pm

      @ Anonymous [May 26, 2012 11:51 am]

      Really sorry to know that you are suffering.

      I checked with some learned people I happen to know and they suggested the following:

      1. Follow the principle of “do what you can until you can do more” — meaning that don’t judge yourself. Take your time to heal.

      2. For speech clarity, you could try the following:

      (a) Reading aloud classic fairy tales written in a simple vocabulary. These usually have a great flow in the language used for narration. The momentum of the flow will help.

      (b) Slowly, increase the degree of difficulty — meaning try reading texts with a vocabulary that is a bit more complex than is deployed in fairy tales — say books by Enid Blyton. As your flow improves, keep increasing the degree of difficulty till you can read a typical newspaper article effortlessly.

      (c) You could also try reading poetry aloud — starting with nursery rhymes — moving to tongue twisters — or — poems that have a complex vocabulary.

      (d) Singing really helps — when the lyrics are right in front of you. Again, you could increase the degree of difficulty. You could start with simple compositions by the Beatles or Simon and Garfunkel and then go on to their more complex compositions. It doesn’t matter if you’re a great singer — singing helps with speech flow.

      3. To make your memory powerful again, you could try the following:

      (a) Reading a short piece of text and trying to recall the theme immediately after reading it — without judging yourself — focus on trying to remember the gist of what you read. The idea is not to memorize but to remember.

      (b) Watching a movie and writing a short summary — maybe in a paragraph or so.

      (c) Just looking out of your window and writing a short paragraph on what you see — maybe just a few sentences.

      (d) If there is a child in your family who plays indoor games — then playing simple card games, carrom, chess, chinese checkers, monopoly etc. would help immensely.

      (e) Complimenting people — but not superficially — observing / noticing something and then saying so — such as — i love the colour of your shirt (instead of you look nice) — or — i love the flavour of this dish (instead of the food is good). I am told that once we begin to notice details and become more observant, our memory becomes sharper.

      (f) Expressing your feelings through poetry or prose. Don’t worry if you want to express your anger or sadness. Try to express it specifically. Use similes. For instance, I feel as bad as a sea without waves instead of I feel bad.

      Hope one or more of these ideas help. I wish you greater courage and resilience. Don’t forget that it’s not your fault. The best and the most intelligent people succumb to cult abuse. Never feel guilty about what happened to you. Take ownership of the present and the future. I am confident that your speech clarity will return to what it was and your memory will be as sharp as it used to be. All the best.

    • Uttam permalink
      May 27, 2012 12:59 am

      In pranic healing, transmutation of energy is taught. Consider consulting a pranic healer. It might help.

    • May 27, 2012 4:59 am

      Everything in your body can be rebuilt. The most important thing is your desire to get better. As you go through every day…..simply focus and draw your attention to the things that are going well.

      Let me give you an example. Lets say you have a severe headache…..and it is seemingly destroying your whole day……here is what you need to do at that time….

      You don’t need to force yourself to forget about the headache……thats unnatural…..

      Instead….

      Every passing moment choose to remember and visit the things that are going well in your body.

      The pain is just around the head area…..but your shoulders are feeling good, your chest feels good…it swells nicely every time you breath in….., when you walk the soles of your feet are making soft contact with the nice carpet…that is a nice feeling …..so many good things to be grateful for. Keep focussing on what is going well in your body. And for variety get your mind to pay attention to different parts of the body….on the surface, inside the body…..keep moving around the body…..do this for a few minutes (the thoughts about the headache and how painful it is will come back….at these moments please don’t stop judge the headache yet once again…..instead just move again gently back to the other parts of the body and continue with your exercise of observing all the parts of your body that are doing well. This will help immensely. It’s very powerful. You are quickly generating wellness
      when this happens.

      You need to the same thing with the memory. Be grateful and happy for all the things that you are currently remembering. While you can be aware of the things that you are forgetting at that time just be happy that you know and are fully alert to the fact that you are forgetting. You are not forgetting that you are forgetting….and that my dear is truly awesome. You are indeed remembering and your alertness is intact. You simply shift the earlier view where the focus was on the forgetfulness to the new view which is FOR Get-fullness …..when you make this a regular habit the brain will automatically rewire itself to become the same you that you were happy with in the past….complete with memory intact and the rest if the nice things that go with it.

      To understand this phenomenon in detail, please see the following illustration from some of the best known experts in this field.

      Also check out

      http://www.in5d.com/free-hooponopono-training.html

      I hope you guys like the links.

      Enjoy your wellness everyone.

      Love

    • Former practitioner permalink
      May 27, 2012 8:44 pm

      Sorry to hear this but know you are not alone. It’s not just the technique, which definitely is damaging, but also the brain-washing. A common suggestion many medical professionals gave me was to exercise. I also dropped reading anything that was too close to AoL stuff, including scriptures. Even listening to mantras. At least until I started gaining “brain muscle and stamina”. I obviously stopped all practices, and still today, even if I try different pranayamas, I feel a little sick. I started reading articles that had to do with “the real world, could be even The Economist, for example, or even a novel written by an author I liked, without pressuring myself to understand anything or read just too many pages at a time. Slowly slowly, it started improving. It’s been several years and I still struggle but I am doing much better! (I was an A student with perfect visual memory and I had reached a point I was even dyslexic!). It’s the price we pay for having given our power to a sociopathic lunatic with absolutely no knowledge of what he “teaches”. Also what helped me A LOT was to introduce meat to my diet. I know this could be a problem if you belong to a religion that does not allow it, but if not, really, this was and still is quite effective, and it has not affected my prana AT ALL. Well, good luck!

    • Anonymous permalink
      May 29, 2012 1:12 pm

      Your memory will come back when you have left the environment of Art of Living, the Satsangs, Ravi Shankar, and avoided that company. It takes some time, but you’ll be fine. I had the same experience. I couldn’t think properly. I know people who told me that even their handwriting became illegible. Their hands began to tremble all the time, etc. And, like you, none were ‘old’. Most of the people around Ravi Shankar cannot think properly, in my opinion, and experience. Pray for the true Grace of God, and you will be alright. I gave up on Ravi Shankar and Art of Living, but not on Grace of God. All ‘masters’ or ‘saints’ are not fake, also, but you must learn to discriminate between them.

  5. VSS permalink
    May 26, 2012 2:25 pm

    “I will not make any claims on AOL and I absolve the teacher / helpers…and organizers of any blame as far as the program outcome is concerned.”

    Doesn’t this part sound like what surgeons make patients sign before surgery ?

    This agreement gives AoL a sense of “perceived legal immunity”, doesn’t it ?

    And, what does this say about stress relief ?

    Is the process of getting stress relief so risky / dangerous that people need to sign such an “agreement” ?

    This is also similar to the sort of agreement that one signs before going for white water rafting — which can be fatal. (I knew someone for whom it proved to be fatal — and he had signed an agreement like this before he went for rafting.)

    @ anyone who is reading

    Don’t you find this agreement suspicious ?

    Does it make sense that such an “agreement” should be needed to seek stress relief and world peace ?

    I would appreciate it very much if you could share your thoughts on this.

  6. May 26, 2012 5:06 pm

    I was going to post something….but I forgot! Just kidding. IO, thanks for the very honest post. I’m obviously very pro SK and AOL because that has been my experience with the technique and the organization, but I do recognize that everybody can have different experiences. Did you ever ask SSRS about your discomforting experience with SK?

    • May 27, 2012 5:29 am

      No Dr Peter. Hmmmm, interestingly I did not. Thinking about it now…..neither does it feel like a missed opportunity nor do I have any guilt/regrets about it. It did not happen.That is it. I suspect that I always knew that a 1 size fits all approach would not work in the Spiritual journey. To each his own…..and uniquely so is what I know to be the truth.

      BTW he was my buddy too. I am now attempting to remember how we used to be. There have been many a time when I have challenged him. I have taken much of his advice…in fact all of it. I have implemented every one of them earnestly. Yet, over time, if I felt that they were not working, I would drop them and follow my own path. There are many many things that he brought to my attention which I am grateful for….even today. Hence, I have limited regrets or negativity about any energy invested into AOL. I got back a lot too for my own journey.

      Especially this….”Do not be a football of other’s opinions”….. “Not even your Masters !!!”.

      Whatever be the knowledge or natural law….it has to work for you……it becomes your truth only when you have directly and experientially verified it through different contexts and situations.

      • GuruSquared permalink
        May 27, 2012 5:17 pm

        Various spiritual traditions of the world and particularly Indian traditions teach different methods/techniques based on the physical and mental natures of the individual. SK being the method of yogis, which through the control of breath attempts to stabilize the mind and hence leads to spiritual experiences, it may be suitable only to certain individuals who have the right physical nature and may cause undesirable effects. Unfortunately it is the only trick AOL has and sells it to everyone, irrespective of their suitability to the method and that is the reason why some enjoy and benefit and many suffer, it seems.

      • May 29, 2012 8:42 pm

        IO aid, “Whatever be the knowledge or natural law….it has to work for you……it becomes your truth only when you have directly and experientially verified it through different contexts and situations.”

        Good stuff, IO Sometimes you have to go through a lot to get to this realization. Buddha expressed the same thing.

    • Anonymous permalink
      May 29, 2012 1:17 pm

      Dr Peter, I did ask Ravi Shankar about my discomfort in SK and he told me I didn’t need to do it if I didn’t want to because I was so close to him. That seemed weird, since I was teaching others to do it. I also knew many teachers who didn’t do the practice because they were very uncomfortable with it. And these are names you would recognize if I said them here, which I won’t for fear of lawsuit. 🙂

      • DrPeter (aka drpetersutphen) permalink
        June 1, 2012 9:27 pm

        Anon, Guruji said you didn’t have to do SK because you were close to him, but you were teaching others to practice SK. Why is that weird? Different dharmas for different people. It all depends where you are in your spiritual journey.

  7. Anonymous permalink
    May 26, 2012 6:11 pm

    @ drpetersutphen

    Does RS ever answer such questions either through email or in an open satsang? Pls watch his live satsangs to understand how he ignores critical questions. He is after all Your Master, drpetersutphen 😉 and evading questions is his area of expertise.

    • May 27, 2012 3:12 am

      Anon, the question was addressed to IO, not you. SSRS is not my Master, he’s my Buddy!

      • VSS permalink
        May 27, 2012 5:10 am

        @ Anonymous [May 26, 2012 6:11 pm]

        Thanks a lot for your extremely insightful comment. Hope you’ll be posting such insightful comments in the future too. This blog is meant for insightful comments. I have read many others reporting on this blog that Mr. Ravi Shankar evades questions about the side effects of SK. It’s not a topic that he is comfortable talking about. It makes him so uncomfortable that he becomes evasive. I can understand. If I claimed something was useful and it harmed so many people, even I would run for cover if asked about it. Mr. Ravi Shankar is an ordinary human being after all. He may or may not possess certain Siddhis but he is definitely not an avatar of God — as claimed by many of his psychologically manipulated followers. If he was, then SK would simply not have any side effects.

        Many of his psychologically manipulated followers also believe that it doesn’t matter if in thousands a few people are harmed. Human beings, individually, have little value in their perception. They probably think that those who have suffered are merely “collateral damage” — such is their disrespect for individuals. That’s why AoL took Skywalker to court — the thought behind that was something like “how dare a human being critique the mighty AoL”. AoL has a zero tolerance policy for criticism which is embodied in the action of taking this blog to court and accusing blog owners of all sorts of motives — Dr. Peter is saying nothing new. He’s simply echoing the hatred that is there in the programmed minds of AoL members about this blog. Look at how he snubs you and says — the question is not for you.

        That’s how things are in AoL. People are snubbed for participating in a discussion in a public space. It’s an anti-democracy organization which claims to strive for stress relief and world peace. Who would even want to join it after witnessing Dr. Peter’s behaviour on this blog and other blogs? One thing though, must be said, he does not discriminate between blogs when it comes to behaviour — he snubs people wherever he goes and avoids questions too. To that extent, he is consistent. If anyone thinks that such consistency is symptomatic of enlightenment, then they are free to do so. Maybe snubbing other human beings is AoL’s way of expressing compassion. Maybe AoL will now claim that they took Skywalker and Klim to court as it was an act of compassion. Actually, anything can be claimed in AoL — such as:

        1. SK cannot be disastrous and damaging.
        2. Mr. Ravi Shankar is enlightened.
        3. Mr. Ravi Shankar is God.
        4. AoL is a completely humanitarian organization that has harmed no one.
        5. AoL is a not-for-profit organization.
        6. Spiritualism is easy and can be bought for a sum of money.
        7. The “knowledge” in the “knowledge sheets” is always helpful.

        The list is endless… think of a claim… chances are AoL made it…

    • DrPeter (aka drpetersutphen) permalink
      June 1, 2012 9:37 pm

      Anon, a Satguru will answer a question in a way which is valuable for you. If you are not satisfied, you just have to keep on asking. I have seen Guruji answer questions quite directly and also completely ignore questions. He has answered some of my question quite directly, ignored others and stopped answering one question right in the middle ! I’ve seen other spiritual teachers do the exact same thing. Satgurus are not some sort of candy store designed to gratify your every wish that pops up in your mind. They are there to facilitate your awakening and this may take forms and directions that the ego may not be comfortable with. They are a coach that you trust to help you reach your goal. You have to put your nattering mind aside at times.

      • VSS permalink
        June 2, 2012 9:54 am

        @ anyone who is reading

        — I have seen Guruji answer questions quite directly and also completely ignore questions. He has answered some of my question quite directly, ignored others and stopped answering one question right in the middle ! —

        Whether you are a member of AoL or not a member of AoL, please notice that this is an observation that Dr. Peter is making — someone who has been in AoL for decades (if I recall correctly).

        This is at the crux of it all.

        If you like this kind of behaviour, then you like it.

        If you don’t like it, then you don’t like it.

        If you like it, you can’t force someone to like it.

        It’s really as simple as that.

        Some people might feel uncomfortable by this kind of behaviour. They might think this is bad behaviour. This discomfiture does not point to any kind of inadequacy. Not everyone enjoys being treated badly — whatever the pretext.

        Also, bad behaviour does not lead to spiritual growth — not for the person who initiates it and not for the person who is subjected to it.

        Still, if you wish to write a thesis on “The Advantages of Mr. Ravi Shankar’s Bad Behaviour”, you are free to do so.

        But those of you who are into recruiting people, please quote Dr. Peter’s comment above and ask them if they would enjoy being treated badly or not. If they say yes, by all means recruit them. But please let people know.

        Tell them honestly, that Mr. Ravi Shankar is a “satguru” and “satgurus” are free to behave badly with their devotees — especially when devotees ask questions — as “satgurus” believe that this leads to “spiritual growth”. Please also tell people that if they are unable to tolerate “standard satguru bad behaviour”, then they will be labeled as people with a massive ego.

        This way, you won’t recruit people who are uncomfortable with the idea of being treated badly. There will be no rude shocks later — not for the one who has been recruited and not for you.

      • Anonymous permalink
        June 2, 2012 1:45 pm

        @ Dr. Peter — you said “Satgurus are not some sort of candy store designed to gratify your every wish that pops up in your mind. They are there to facilitate your awakening…” This is right out of Ravi Shankar’s playbook of excuses. I heard that candy store thing so many things from his mouth! As for facilitating awakening? I never saw anyone getting awakened around him, only more immersed in chasing hima round, trying to grovel and do anything he asked to get a private meeting with him, including hurting others. The most honest thing he ever said to me, when I asked him to help me, to do something to facilitate my awakening, was to look really guilty, and say “what do you want me to do? I can’t do anything”. Really. That is what he said. Without power. Finally admitting that he couldn’t help anyone. In that moment, I was so disgusted I cannot even express it here. He actually looked sorry for wasting my time. He knew I was sincerely looking for answers. And he was at least kind enough in that moment to admit he had nothing whatsoever to offer.

  8. Anonymous permalink
    May 26, 2012 8:22 pm

    @drpetersutphen

    “I was going to post something….but I forgot! Just kidding”

    Were you also kidding when you said that you forget your handles.

    It was strange that you forget your id, especially when you are using the same id on this and other blogs for a long time. When you blog from another id, your tone also changes significantly making the reader believe that it is someone else. At least you could have identified yourself when you were blogging using different ids.

    I can understand the memory loss if you are doing SK regularly, but to forget your handle which you have been using so regulary these days should be a severe memory loss. You definitely need medical attention.

    • May 27, 2012 3:10 am

      Thank you Anon, I’ll visit the psychiatrist that rents space from me in my office! I forget my “handles” when I don’t post that often because I make them up on the spot. Now I’m permanently logged in using my real name. Now, perhaps that is something I need medication for!

      • The Doctor permalink
        May 27, 2012 6:58 am

        “I forget my “handles” when I don’t post that often because I make them up on the spot.”

        @Peter – this is complete BS and you know it.

        From April 26th to May 11th, a period of 16 days, you made 42 posts under the pseudonym of “drpetersutphen”. During that time you also made 5 posts under “Anonymous”.

        On May 14th you started posting under “Mr Potato Head” and you carried that on through to May 16th, making a total of 8 posts under this pseudonym.

        Now in this particular instance, you cannot use the excuse that you forgot your pseudonym because weren’t posting often – you definitely were, in fact you were posting almost daily on this blog. Further, you cannot seriously tell us that you forgot your pseudonym, “drpetersutphen”, because this actually has your name in it. It’s like telling us you completely forgot your own name.

        And recall how flustered you were when I actually revealed to everyone that you were posting under this other pseudonym? How it became obvious to everyone that you were only doing it because you wanted to express a point of view on the blog but didn’t want to do it under your main pseudonym, so you used another. Which is the real reason why you use different pseudonyms here. And you even had the nerve to complain when I exposed you.

        You asked me to call you out each time you lie, and I’m doing just that.

    • VSS permalink
      May 27, 2012 6:27 am

      @ Anonymous [May 26, 2012 8:22 pm]

      It is indeed a case of severe memory loss — especially because those posts are very much there on the threads for reference. One can always go back to a thread and check what id one posted under. If one cannot recall the id one used, one can definitely trace one’s footsteps to the thread one posted on. If one forgets the thread, then one can look for it based on the topic one commented on. If one can’t remember the topic, then that’s even more serious.

      But that’s not the point — all this drama is being done to mislead the readers of this blog — and then post reactive comments to snub them. If attacking people who post on this blog is the objective — then it is evident. Dr. Peter is vitiating the atmosphere — he is abusing his knowledge of Psychology to launch now not-so-subtle attacks.

      Multiple attempts have been made to have a discussion with him by various people. Lots of proof / evidence has been provided which he ignores or dismisses. He simply does not answer questions. He twists words. He snubs. He snaps. He heckles. Now, through him, AoL wants to control this blog. Whether intentionally or not, he has been planted here — so that if anyone who has genuine doubts about AoL — and wants to express themselves — they’ll feel threatened — just as threatened as they feel within AoL.

      But I believe in the innate intelligence and the innate courage that all human beings possess. Those of you who are silently reading this blog — and have genuine doubts about AoL — please remember one thing — the benefits of being in AoL are expressed on several web sites and blogs — but the harm that it has caused is only documented on this blog. AoL tried to shut it down but it failed.

      If it bothers you that SK has harmed people, then feel empowered to express your thoughts. If you have been harmed by SK, feel empowered to express your thoughts. If anything else about AoL bothers you, then don’t suppress your inner voice. It will be heard here. There are many places where the benefits of AoL have been detailed and continue to be detailed. But there is only one place where you can express your doubts. If someone is telling you that your inner voice doesn’t matter because you are in a minority as most people have benefited from AoL, then please don’t buy that. Each individual is important. Each individual has human rights. Please don’t be afraid to express your inner voice. There are many of us who post on this blog who will lend you a patient ear and not judge you or snub you. Please don’t think that you are alone if you have a doubt. One of the most disastrous ideas indoctrinated in AoL is “doubt the doubt”. It is done to silence people — so that they don’t ask questions. Recognize this silencing tactic, look beyond AoL, and express yourself.

  9. Anonymous permalink
    May 26, 2012 10:09 pm

    HI everyone! Even if the paper says “I don´t blame anyone for the practicing of SK” It should also say: I have been informed about the process denominated SK AND of unlike but possible side negative effects. Should I experience any of the latter I release everyone from further claims”… Or so I think…

  10. Anonymous permalink
    May 27, 2012 5:23 am

    “Anon, the question was addressed to IO, not you.

    Is this a new rule you are forcing on this blog.

    • DrPeter (aka drpetersutphen) permalink
      June 1, 2012 9:39 pm

      Anon, you are right. That was a stupid response in my part!

  11. concerned permalink
    May 27, 2012 5:44 am

    This is the story of a highly sucessful professional earning a lot of money.. He had a been a part time teacher ,very successful teacher with severa courses to his credit .Over the years he has made several donations personally as well raised money for the organization.
    He quit his profession on advice of Ravishankar, became a full time teacher , relocated to the ashram to dedicate full time in service to AOL.
    Today few years down he lane he is nowhere, not being allowed to live in the ashram anymore, with no job, low on self confidence, with a family to support.He is now at a dead end , does not know what to do .

    Where is the support that SSRS keeps promising his teachers and devotees. Lets leave the financial support. What about mental and emotional support???

    Does this mean SSRS just uses these words to fool his devotees , volunteers and teachers to work more and more for him????

  12. Harshal permalink
    May 27, 2012 8:04 am

    “And recall how flustered you were when I actually revealed to everyone that you were posting under this other pseudonym?”

    Motherfucker, you dont realize that if someone posts comments from iphone, it usually logs you out of the wordpress everytime the phone runs out of battery and dies and not everyone else has the time to log into wp like you and kiss ass of your bitches like VSS.

    You dont have a job motherfucker do you? You must be some old fart, whose penis refuses to rise. Is that not correct?

    Really this is what you do? you bastard? this is what you fight with , with someone who is genuinely trying to answer your questions. I had the option I would put a rod in your ass.

    • The Doctor permalink
      May 27, 2012 11:11 am

      @Harshal,

      It looks like we’ve hit a real nerve or two here. I’m really glad we’re “entertaining” enough for you.

      But let’s get one thing straight: ” this is what you fight with , with someone who is genuinely trying to answer your questions. “

      Not one of you is interested in “genuinely answering questions” here, because if you were, we might actually have some answers now. Yet at this time so many questions have been ignored by you, Peter, and many others. All any of you do is get abusive, throw tantrums, evade questions, play the victim, and generally lie to cover up and downplay a great deal of what we’ve exposed about Art of Living on this blog.

      So you can cut the crap right now and stop throwing all your toys out of the pram like a little baby. By the way, does your wife know that you’re posting these things here? Don’t worry, I’m not going to tell her, but honestly how do you think she would react if she saw the things you’ve been writing?

    • Harshal permalink
      May 27, 2012 11:23 am

      thanks for allowing this post to go through Motherfucker.

      • Harshal permalink
        May 27, 2012 11:30 am

        PS: and yes motherfucker….you have really hit the nerve…this blog is a big entertainment for me, but now i am really pissed to see how you son of bitches are dealing with someone like peter. seriously if i knew you, i would just put a rod in your ass. hiding behind an anonymous id -how long will you stay anonymous?

    • stupidseeker permalink
      May 27, 2012 12:01 pm

      @HarshalBhau,

      Pls. try taking a break from AOL, like taking a long vacation from AOL for several months and make sure that there is no trace of AOL during this long break. You just might find the change refreshing.

    • concerned permalink
      May 27, 2012 1:49 pm

      @ harshal

      if this is how regular practice of SKY, and SSRS have an effect on one’s language and mind……. we really had a lucky escape.

      P.S: SSRS himself mentions in Ashtavakra Gita one of criteria to read/ listen to Ashtavakra is refinement of speech.

      • Harshal permalink
        May 27, 2012 2:30 pm

        @concerned

        “we really had a lucky escape”

        This is your problem son of a bitch. Your dirty minds interprets causality as and whichever way it wants to. How many AOL people have you met who have called you a ‘bastard’..

      • Anonymous permalink
        May 29, 2012 1:24 pm

        Yes, concerned, in my experience, the regular association with Art of Living, Ravi Shankar and practice of SK does produce Harshal’s type of behavior quite often. That’s why I left. I couldn’t stand the ugly behavior of the “master”, nor the senior teachers who were constantly in tantrums and even violent behavior in person (not just words). It’s a sick environment, filled with sick people. Those who are not sick enough, just leave, because there is nothing there for them. A saint visited the ashram. I spoke with that man. He made this statement and asked this question of me: “This is a mental hospital filled with patients. Why are you here? You can leave this place. You don’t need to be here.” When I shared this with Ravi Shankar, he was upset, but said that many of the people who were there, including people who are even today senior teachers, are mentally ill, and would be “criminals” if they were on “the outside in the world”. These were his own words.

    • Ronin permalink
      May 27, 2012 3:11 pm

      Harshal – Peter

      You and Peter are like a good cop bad cop act in a crime detective show. pete being the good cop but then he is a psychologists more refined and balanced out. Your more the street fighter raw muscle guy.

      Peter you did mentioned your a psychologist and i am still of the oppnion that was done fore a reason even though you did say your not here in that capacity, why mention it. It is like dropping names of important people you know at a party. May i ask your professional oppinion as a psychologist do you think Harshal has some anger managemnt issue’s.

      And should he not have been properly screened before taking all the AOL courses, who knows based on his behavior here he COULD be one of those who in his out bursts hurts some one. Now that would not be good for any one especially since there would be enough evidence on this blog that it was coming. Hope fully grace and people like you can intervene before such an event happens.

      Harshal i dont think the Doc has anything to worry about you ramming something, or anything for that matter Cause he as the shakti drops just in case of such emergencies becareful he might go all Hulk on ya.

      Seriously though cut the childish bravado, it is un becomming and really does not impress anyone. You sound like an arm chair general…..i think you know what i mean

      Harshal keep posting so i know what your up too would hate to open up a news paper and see that you made the front page…….and i am not referring to a headline stating you got enlightened…….

    • King Phillip the III (drpetersutphen) permalink
      May 30, 2012 12:48 am

      Well, Harshal, I wouldnt have express it with such enthusiasm as you have, but that is exactly the situation. I also find it humorous to use different names. It’s one thing if I started arguing with myself or some such nonsense, but I don’t. Also I post from both my computer and iPhone. The Dr. sees evasiveness and lying where there is absolutely none intended.

      • Anonymous permalink
        June 1, 2012 7:31 pm

        Is Harshal’s manner of expression regarded as “enthusiasm” now? Oh Dr. Peter, Really. You are so upset that Doctor From Beyond questions your motives, but don’t mind at all if someone is abusive. That abuse is labelled ‘enthusiasm’ as long it comes from an AOL devotee? Your intent is very clear now. I think I understand why you are posting on this blog.

  13. Anonymous permalink
    May 27, 2012 10:27 am

    Thank you all for your support, love and compassion. Things that I only longed for but could not get from my Guru whom I trusted and worshipped for so many years.

    I will detail the other problem that I had while practising SK but right now I am too overwhelmed with pain to write anything more.

    I am sorry that i am unable to thank you all individually. I could manage to type just this much with my tearful eyes.

    Thank you all and Bless you.

  14. Gurujis devotee permalink
    May 27, 2012 1:23 pm

    Harshalji, please mind your language- its not becoming for a devotee of our beloved guru of peace and love to display such violent and crass behavior

  15. Harshal permalink
    May 27, 2012 2:22 pm

    @guruji’s devotee: apologies for my language. But i think these people deserve it. I am not a AOL teacher and don’t have patience like you do.

    There is a saying in marathi ‘vinchu devharashi aale tyasi painjanacha mara”..
    “when a scorpion comes to the place of worship kill it with a broom”

    • The Doctor permalink
      May 27, 2012 2:49 pm

      @Harshal: “But i think these people deserve it.”

      But the only thing these people are doing is sharing their bad experiences they had with Art of Living. Why does this even bother you? Why are you complaining about it? Why are you wasting your time visiting this blog if it’s causing you to lose your patience, become abusive and get unnecessarily worked up about it? Why can’t you simply accept that these are the experiences these people had, and show some compassion towards them?

      Do you really believe anything you are doing here is helping you or Art of Living in any way whatsoever? Whenever people see your posts, this leads them to believe that Art of Living messes people up really badly, and why shouldn’t they given your disgraceful behaviour?

      • Harshal permalink
        May 27, 2012 3:03 pm

        It entertains me and bothers me too. It amazes me too. People like you, hiding behind an anonymous ID can throw mud at anything and everything.

        So what was your evidence.

        “kriya tapes works with and without a teacher too, contrary to what you have been told”

        Is that it?

        When sadhana suggested that it is possibly said so that kriya can be done under careful observation, you just ignore her answer and accuse everyone of ‘evading answers’

        There are some bithces with borderline personality disorder here, who have not even done AOL course and they keep writing nonsense- with multiple ID’s-isint that true? and you happily ignore that. Why? Because you have an agenda. You know what it is. And you harass someone of the stature of peter stuphen. Honestly , you don’t even deserve to be his toilet cleaner.

        I come here to do whatever I feel is right and appropriate, completely and openly. I dont care that you and others know. I am however curious to know how long you can live with the ignonymity of being an anonymous slanderer who has no balls to come out in open.

      • The Doctor permalink
        May 27, 2012 3:36 pm

        “When sadhana suggested that it is possibly said so that kriya can be done under careful observation, you just ignore her answer and accuse everyone of ‘evading answers’”

        I answer all questions directly asked of me. If sadhana’s comment that you’re referring to is the one I’m thinking of (you would do well to quote it), then other people did respond to it, so there was absolutely no need for me to add anything because their response was adequate. But that aside, I don’t see any need to respond to each and every comment on this blog unless it is addressed to me directly. So no, I haven’t evaded any questions in this case. But nice try.

        Both you and Peter on the other hand have evaded many questions asked of you, and you both continue to play they victim and act dumb and innocent. The worst part is you both continue to tell outrageous lies on this blog whilst at the same time hoping that somehow we won’t catch you out. That’s absolutely fine by me, but as I’ve warned you on so many occasions in the past, you just end up weakening any argument you were trying to make by making a complete fool of yourself, and damaging Art of Living in the process. I still don’t understand why you do this, but that’s one of those mysteries that will probably forever remain a mystery.

        You would also do well to look up terms such as “defamation” and “slander” because you obviously don’t have any idea what either of these mean. Here’s are a couple of links that may be helpful:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel

    • Ronin permalink
      May 27, 2012 3:34 pm

      They deserve it, harsal thank God u don’t rule the Universe. Such compensation or is it over compensation. Peter is better qualified to judge this.

      a qoute from my neck of the woods

      Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.
      Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat

  16. Anonymous permalink
    May 27, 2012 2:28 pm

    @ Harshal

    Pls listen to this

    I hope it helps you and your guru.

    The online satsang is no longer available. The video has gone private!!??
    Tried watching the live satsang but the audio was not working 😦

    • Harshal permalink
      May 27, 2012 2:49 pm

      anonymous: I have done vipassana twice.

  17. Anonymous permalink
    May 27, 2012 3:13 pm

    @ Harshal

    And then you did SK and became like this?

  18. Harshal permalink
    May 27, 2012 3:42 pm

    no. The point is that if you were to search in google ‘vipassana cult’ you will find many of your mofo cousins.

    • Anonymous permalink
      May 27, 2012 6:27 pm

      @ Harshal

      You have clearly missed the point. This video was not posted to promote Vipassana. I only wanted you to listen to the talk and understand it.

      Btw Do you practise SK &/ meditate regularly?

      I’m just wondering if its the 99% grace that failed to work or the 1% technique?

      • Harshal permalink
        May 27, 2012 8:11 pm

        anonymous: you missed the point. The point is why should i listen to someone who according to your mofo cousins is a cult leader?

  19. Harshal permalink
    May 27, 2012 3:50 pm

    “we won’t catch you out”

    Ya mofo ..catch us out. Thats what you do for living.

    • Anonymous permalink
      May 29, 2012 1:29 am

      Yeah, I never realized that AOL doesn’t encourage people to listen to knowledge from any other source except for AOL and RS. That’s Spiritual shopping, correct?

      In effect, the only conversion you can see happen in AOL is that formerly the participants were non aol ites and now they are AOL ites following Rs ism, practicing SK.

      In AOL, Peace, compassion, naturalness, openness to knowledge, none of these things are more important than deifying the Guru. Because Aol ites, are programmed to believe that THE GURU will liberate them. To bestow or withhold liberation is in the hands of the guru.
      I am HIS responsibility and HIS work is MY responsibility.

      How much have I improved as a person – mentally, emotionally, spiritually? How is my behavior with others? How is my physical health? one hardly questions / introspects while in AOL, especially if they are in Seva. If anyone does ask this question, the master says, “Only a master knows how much you have changed”

      They think they can do what they want and that’s fine because that’s their way of using their skill to accomplish the task. As long as you recruit more and more people onto the path of enlightenment (read who hyperventilate and say JGD after donating a big fat fee to the guru) its OK.

      So, with the world doing SK, World peace will be achieved! forget the individuals inner peace. The devotee attains mukti / moksh depending on how much Guru Seva (read recruitment, teaching, spreading Guru stories and now defending the master on this Blog) they have done.

      The number of years they spend in the organisation makes them feel that they have covered that much distance in their marathon towards enlightenment.

      So our Harshal is on his way to enlightenment 😉

      And,since it’s always been 99% grace and 1% technique, it make me wonder, If this is His Master’s energy flowing through him?

  20. Harshal permalink
    May 27, 2012 3:55 pm

    “But that aside, I don’t see any need to respond to each and every comment on this blog unless it is addressed to me directly”

    Dont lie fucker. You are the one who threw a big tantrum about this thing. So it was addressed to you. you conveniently ignored it. Show me who responded to the statement that ‘ some yogic practices should be done under observation.

    • The Doctor permalink
      May 27, 2012 4:15 pm

      The only comment I could find which was even vaguely along the lines of what you are referring to is this one:

      https://aolfree.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/the-truth-hurts/#comment-12281
      Since S.K. is a yogic practice and all yogic processes are supposed to be potentially harmful if done without proper teacher guidance,we accepted what she had told.

      a) This is a comment, not a question (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comment and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question to get an understanding of the difference between the two),
      b) It wasn’t directly addressed to me but was left as a general comment, and
      c) Jr. responded to that, as did several others – you can see this clearly if you follow the link.

      As I said before, nice try. But this just shows that in fact it is you who is lying. Yet again.

  21. Harshal permalink
    May 27, 2012 4:41 pm

    fucker: when did I say that it was a question?Dont post wikepedia links.

    Jr. did not directly address the comment. He ‘evaded’ it by his old farts of ‘business of brining people to satsang’ and not countering the argument.

    • The Doctor permalink
      May 27, 2012 5:01 pm

      No he didn’t “evade” it – he responded to it directly and gave the exact reply I would have given. Because that is the only possible reason for it.

      If it had anything to do with “safety”, this would be stated from the outset. But it isn’t. Instead, they invent a whole bunch of mumbo jumbo about the tape not working without the teacher because the teacher is the “channel” through which “grace” flows. We all know this, as do you, as does Peter. Please don’t try to insult anyone’s intelligence here by lying about it. But the problem is that people from Art of Living won’t acknowledge that they know this, and have always, since it was first raised on this blog, evaded any questions asked about this one thing. You’ve done it in the past, as has Peter, as have so many others. This whole “grace” business is one of the key underlying issues which no one from Art of Living is prepared to address or even acknowledge because if they do it means admitting that one of their core beliefs is completely wrong. That was the whole point of raising this in the first place.

      Now I think it’s safe to say, this concludes our discussion.

    • gurujis devotee permalink
      May 27, 2012 5:09 pm

      @ harshal

      please mind your language , or just get off this blog if it bothers you so much. You are soiling the image of guruji

      • Anonymous permalink
        May 29, 2012 1:08 pm

        What a gentle thing to say! Too bad your Guruji’s image is already so soiled by his own actions. He doesn’t need Harshal to soil it further. But, you are right — Harshal is proof of what Guruji produces. Bitter fruit.

  22. Harshal permalink
    May 27, 2012 5:06 pm

    fucker. he just evaded it fucker, just like you evaded my question before this comment.

    Again: when did i say it was a question?

    I will break it down for you mofo. One needs to counter an arugment by resoponding directly to it.

    For example- if i were to say- curd must be kept in fridge or it might go bad. The response to that would be- ‘no it has been known to stay good outside’. and not by saying – oh the curd owners just want to sell more curd. got it mofo?

    • The Doctor permalink
      May 27, 2012 5:22 pm

      @Harshal,

      It’s clear from what you’ve written that you seriously need help. I’m not joking in any way.

      Please try this: ask someone else to read over everything you’ve written, especially your latest comment above, and really take the time to listen to what they have to say and reflect upon it. They may not immediately tell you that you need help, but at the very least, they’ll probably tell you that what you’ve written above is complete nonsense. Because in every possible respect, it is.

      • Jr. permalink
        May 27, 2012 6:10 pm

        Good Lord…just when I thought Harshal had finally given up his tiresome anger-driven incoherent rants, he explodes like a volcano. This place was much nicer when Harshal was not around. We could actually have real and coherent discussions with Peter. You could learn something from Peter. He doesn’t throw tantrums and verbally abuse people. Even though Peter has a difference of opinions on things, he knows how to be respectful.

        And Harshal, there’s no point in me answering your questions. In your own words “people who has shit for minds only see dirt,” makes me aware that al you’re going to see is bad in any of my responses. Please, like the Doctor said, get help somewhere.

    • Peaceful Devotee permalink
      May 28, 2012 5:34 pm

      @Harshal,

      What gives man? I was speechless when I read all these comments you wrote. So much bad language and bad energy. This is not how someone who follows our Guruji behaves. We are all supposed to be ambassadors of Grace, remember? This means if we do something good, people say “Look, Art of Living is doing good in the world”. But if just one person is behaves badly, people say, “Look, Art of Living makes people like him, kriya makes people angry, Guruji is a bad Guru.” This is what people are now saying when they read your comments, and it makes me so embarrassed when I read these things.

      Whatever negativity there is on this blog, can’t you see you are making this negativity so much worse? Please tell me, what are hoping to do by acting like this? Is it to hurt Guruji? Is it to hurt Art of Living? If you mean to do this or not, this is what you’re doing – hurting Guruji. Can you imagine what he would say if he saw the things you wrote? He would be so sad to read this, it would really hurt him.

      If something is bothering you, talk to us about it. Or talk to your local Art of Living center and share all the problems you’re having here. We are all here to help you, and you sound like you really need to feel more belongingness. Really talk to teachers you know, tell them what is going on, for sure they can help you.

      But please, please dearly stop writing like this here, it’s really not nice for anyone to see.

      Really hope you sort things out and feel better soon.

      • Anonymous permalink
        May 29, 2012 1:36 pm

        Dear Peaceful Devotee, Unfortunately, I saw many people around Guruji behave the way Harshal is speaking on this blog. I even saw physical violence from senior teachers (still with him today). Guruji let them get away with it for reasons that escaped me then and do today. But those teachers brought/bring in lots of business so maybe that’s why? You are not alone in being peaceful and devoted, but many, many people close to Guruji are ugly in their speech and actions. Even those closest to him! I’ve seen it, heard it, and left because of it. Bless you for trying to reform Harshal, but you should start with Guruji and reform him first, in my opinion. He knows about and allows behavior like this, and has even been quite abusive and cruel himself. This is hard for you to believe because you see only the smiling fronts he and they put on, but I’m telling the honest truth of my experience. I’m glad I left. I’m glad this blog is here to warn people like you of the reality at the center of the organization and with Guruji. Truly kind people don’t seem to last long near him.

    • Mangal permalink
      May 28, 2012 11:07 pm

      Harshal’s vicious and profane rants are a direct consequence of the proselytization mission that SSRS has thrust on his followers. SSRS forces his followers to bring more people into courses so he can become famous for the next 2000 years. This blog is a major obstacle in that goal so Harshal loses his temper and attacks it.

      SSRS shd encourage people to live his teachings before forcing others to take the course.. Then such fanaticsim wouldn’t rise up.

      • VSS permalink
        May 29, 2012 5:02 am

        @ Mangal [May 28, 2012 11:07 pm]

        On May 26, 2012, at 1:25 am, you said:

        — Many Indians like VSS get an education completely devoid of the basic fundamentals of Hinduism and have zero idea what their sacred texts actually contain. They like to strut their “secular” character and shrink from the word “hindu”. —

        Do you see anything vicious or fanatical in this comment?

        I’m not saying that the comment contains any profanity.

  23. Harshal permalink
    May 27, 2012 5:24 pm

    you do this all the time fucker. you need more help.

    • sadhana permalink
      May 27, 2012 8:45 pm

      Harshal, Jibhevar lagam thevane ani vritti var niyantran thevane aapale kartavya aahe.Ashi bhasha vaparun aapan aapali shobha karun gheto aahe..Gurujina he aavadel ka ? ani vinchu ase net var thechale janar aahet ka ?

      • Harshal permalink
        May 27, 2012 8:52 pm

        @sadhana: Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharajanche wansaj aahot, aaagat kshatriyache raqt aahe…kay karnar. Ubhya aushat aasle shabd kadhi vaparale nahit… pan hey adharmi sahan hot nahit.

      • Anonymous permalink
        May 28, 2012 6:28 am

        harshal doesn’t understand marati. please write in english or tamil

      • stupidseeker permalink
        May 28, 2012 7:19 am

        Dont you and Harshal know each other in real life BTW, that your chitchatting away here in Marathi to glory ??

      • stupidseeker permalink
        May 28, 2012 3:41 pm

        @Harshal,

        So you are descended from Shivaji Maharaj ?? And you can’t seem to tolerate us infidels, is it ?? It’s your potty mouth, and when you blame us for the verbal diarrhoea you spew, you insult your Guru, who advised you to take responsibility since it meant power. Instead by complaining you fulfill your guru’s definition of a wek person. LOL

    • Jr. permalink
      May 28, 2012 7:02 am

      Maybe if Peter tells Harshal to get help, he will listen? I say this because Harshal thinks very highly of Peter.

      Peter, will you help Harshal?

      • Dr Peter (drpetersutphen) permalink
        May 30, 2012 1:01 am

        Harshal, my brother. I’m a pitta too and understand anger really well. I can understand why you want to talk this way, but slow down, for your sake. I’m having fine exchanges with Jr. And IO. Not so much with the Dr. and VSS though. I see my exchanges with them as a tapas that burns my attachments to be understood or liked. I notice the sensations in the body burning away! Be a tantrika and let life situations move you to the Divine. Anyway, my two cents worth of advice. Be well. It’s serious tapas in here!

      • Jr. permalink
        June 1, 2012 5:22 pm

        Thank you Peter. Maybe he will listen to you. We all want him to get well…

      • sadhana permalink
        June 2, 2012 6:01 am

        Stupidseeker,If u are asking me if I know Harshal, No ..I don’t know him personally. But I can understand his love for Guruji and his need to do something pro-AOL.

        Dr Peter (drpetersutphen),what a nice reply..

        Harshal,make him an example.He is standing on such strong foundation of knowledge.
        We should have control on our vrittis in any circumstances. ani ek goshta,koni aol virodhi aahe mhanun adharmi nahi hou shakat..Aapala dharma ani AOl sudha sarva samaveshak aahe.
        Let people discuss..ultimately it actually might help sincere seekers.

        By the way Harshal,I read in one of doctor’s post that you are a doctor by profession.Why don’t you come out with recent research results.I know,there was a seminar few months back at Ravindra Natya Mandir,Mumbai. Dr.B.Vaz is doing quite good work among doctors.You can get all necessary information from her.

        To all bloggers,if I have written to Harshal in language we both understand it’s because I wanted to communicate to him some advice that everybody around the world didn’t need to know..

  24. NoToAOL permalink
    May 27, 2012 6:25 pm

    “Why Teachers are Unqualified to Teach Sudarshan Kriya”
    Not only teachers without medical degree can not teach Sudarshan Kriya, Sudarshan Kriya itself cannot be practiced without obtaining approval and proper license from Ministry of Health or from any other authority that regulates medical field in each particular country.
    For instance, if Sudarshan Kriya is approved in India as a valid medical technique or practice, it doesn’t mean that it can be practiced elsewhere without an approval from medical authority of each country it’s being practiced in. It’s similar to drugs being put on the market. In USA no drug cannot be sold unless FDA approved, same applies to any medical technique or practice, which Sudarshan Kriya is certainly is.
    The laws regulating medical field are very strict, and it’s illegal not only to practice anything not approved, but even to advertise it.
    The fact is that Sudarshan Kriya is being practiced and advertised in most of the countries illegally and I cannot understand how come nobody drew the attention of relevant authorities to it? It’s not a matter of filing an expensive law suits after all, but simple complaint to Police Fraud Division would siffice, and usually it’s the state who would be pressing charges for illegal practices against Art Of Licing Foundation.

  25. Harshal permalink
    May 27, 2012 8:12 pm

    @NoToAOL: if you have balls go ahead and do it.

    • NoToAOL permalink
      May 28, 2012 9:36 am

      @Harshal: Not only balls, but more important brain I have. Plus good knowledge of laws as well. So, you just wait and see. For your information:

      The Medical Practice Act, Business and Professions Code section 2052, provides:

      “Any person who practices or attempts to practice, or who holds himself or herself out as practicing…[medicine] without having at the time of so doing a valid, unrevoked, or unsuspended certificate…is guilty of a public offense.”

      Business and Professions Code section 2400, within the Medical Practice Act, provides in pertinent part:

      “Corporations and other artificial entities shall have no professional rights, privileges, or powers.”

      The policy expressed in Business and Professions Code section 2400 against the corporate practice of medicine is intended to prevent unlicensed persons from interfering with or influencing the physician’s professional judgment. From the Medical Board’s perspective, health care decisions should be made by a physician licensed in the State of California and would constitute the unlicensed practice of medicine if performed by an unlicensed person.

      The types of decisions and activities described above cannot be delegated to an unlicensed person, including (for example) management service organizations.The following types of medical practice ownership and operating structures also are prohibited:

      – Non-physicians owning or operating a business that offers patient evaluation, diagnosis, care and/or treatment.
      – Physician(s) operating a medical practice as a limited liability company, a limited liability partnership, or a general corporation.
      – Management service organizations arranging for, advertising, or providing medical services rather than only providing administrative staff and services for a physician’s medical practice (non-physician exercising controls over a physician’s medical practice, even where physicians own and operate the business).
      – A physician acting as “medical director” when the physician does not own the practice. For example, a business offering spa treatments that include medical procedures such as Botox injections, laser hair removal, and medical microdermabrasion, that contracts with or hires a physician as its “medical director.”

      In the examples above, non-physicians would be engaged in the unlicensed practice of medicine, and the physician may be aiding and abetting the unlicensed practice of medicine.

      • ANON permalink
        May 29, 2012 12:37 am

        @ NoToAOL

        Can you write detailed and legally sound complaint letters using laws in USA on following different issues against AOL body in USA, apex body in Switzerland and India? I understand as they are represented in USA all other associates can be made party in USA.

        1. Illegal, unlawful and unethical medical practices of ‘Art of Living’

        2. Misappropriation of money by ‘not for profit/charitable’ organisation e.g. not reporting cash, tax evasion by misusing donation system in USA, money laundering, transfer of monies by over payments to visiting teachers.

        3. Visa abuse in USA. On what visa the international teachers visit USA? Do their visas allow them to practice business in USA? when they earn/paid for their lectures in USA do they report it to USA income tax?

        You may also do research and give contact details of concerned departments (mailing address, email, web links) for each of these crimes.

        I would also request other competent persons to take on this volunteer work and contribute their inputs.

        Let people form USA and in other parts of the world send formal complaint letters to appropriate organizations via mail, email or online submissions.

        @Doc

        I would appreciate if you can make this a separate posting under its own heading and collate existing material on these issues from the blog in the posting.

  26. Anonymous permalink
    May 27, 2012 8:32 pm

    Brilliant article! Thank you. Many people I know, including myself, have also experienced similar symptoms as those described in the article and other individual comments. Memory loss, among other “losses”, such as, critical thinking, ability to grasp and retain information, hair! (being RS the number one fatal victim of this! see his severe balding head!). I also have noticed spine problems, nervous system, thyroid and hypertension problems. As a former teacher myself, by the end, I also suffered problems with SK practice. Once I left, other “dissidants” also confessed they did too! Many of them, including myself, had brought it to RS’s attention, and we all shared the same experience: he did not know what to say and only responded, “keep doing it, it will pass. It’s an astrological moment.” Once in a while he’d also blame it on our “not being surrendered enough” and/or getting the “negative karma” of the students. I kept doing my practices, without questioning his words, because, if I did, doubts were due to low prana (!), and it’d mean I had to do more practices! or I was doing something wrong with my practices! (endless vicious cycle!). All I know is I felt sicker and sicker after the 20-40 mins of daily sadhana! Feeling great deal of pressure in the frontal lobe, headaches, dizzy, without the ability to be effective during the whole day, nauseous.

    I did an MRI of the brain to make sure nothing was damaged. Well, there is a hole in my otherwise former healthy brain, and I have had (and still have) many health problems. Me and many former folllowers I know, in their majority, teachers as well.

    The scientific studies published by AoL are all BS, unfinished researches done in an unscientific manner by biased, brainwashed, unprofessional “doctors”.

    Finally, teachers are unqualified to teach SK because none of them, not even RS, understands the SK. It’s all getting out of his control! (even his own ambition! as he often said in his discourses, “desires don’t have an end”). RS himself does not practice SK!!!!!!!! Teachers are not even qualified to transmit spirituality since none of them understand nor “live the knowledge”. Teachers are not qualified because TTCs are not meant to train anyone to facilitate the SK or “go deeper in the knowledge” (though he keeps promising it will happen ….), but mainly to recruit more new students and how to answer tricky questions such as, “Is AoL a sect?” Most everyone who attends a TTC is made a teacher, and many we know have a psychiatric problem that is not being taken care of medically. RS is not interested in the quality nor the the individual or society. They are all sources of income. And he wants more and is in a hurry. “There is no more time. Quick, quick, quick.”

    Let’s wake up!There cannot be a one-for-all technique to cure everything and everyone! That to begin with, should raise enough suspicions. We are all different and we all need different things. How can a 20-40-40 “save the world” for heaven’s sake? AoL is a madhouse, a collection of nuts (as Ravi often would joke about). And look at him! He is so sick and stressed and cannot cure even himself! He blames it on his traveling but then he often tells businesspeople to do it to give them more energy. He claims SK can replace health insurance. Once you start practicing it, you won’t need doctors anymore. Yeah right. His senior teachers and swamis are all sick and are constantly seeking for doctors and discussing treatments! Why does he need 3, 4 body therapists per day, wherever he goes? Why does he carry so many medication bottles in his “black bag”? Why does he have a table full of medications in his room in all his ashrams? Why does he look so unhealthy, so balding, so moody, so unhappy? Why do his teachers, swamis and Bhanu look that sick too? Why? … I can almost hear him it’s because they are taking everyone’s bad karma, or that he is taking care of their karma, or that they are burning bad karma this lifetime to be better off next life time. Well, those who reached after 1999 or something like that, let me tell you, “you lost your chance.” According to him, only those who reached him before that time had a chance. The ones who’d arrive after that were not that profound and would not have a chance for enlightenment nor to reincarnate with him in Mongolia (which he later regretted because he disliked the place!). This man, he is full of crap. And his followers, they should all wake up to remember they have a brain of their own which was given to them for individual use.

    • Anonymous (aka drpetersutphen) permalink
      May 31, 2012 5:46 pm

      Anon said, “I have a hole in my otherwise healthy brain”

      In all seriousness, If you have a gross anatomical defect in your brain as you state, you need to see what caused it. SK, a breathing technique, would not cause such a thing. You need to talk to a good neurologist as soon as possible.

      • Jr. permalink
        June 1, 2012 5:20 pm

        And how do you know this, Dr? How can one be so sure it didn’t cause the whole.

      • Anonymous permalink
        June 1, 2012 7:26 pm

        @ Dr. Peter,

        Why do your tapasya here on this blog? What a condescending thing to say (a different post of yours). But then, you are tapasya for me as well. Putting up with the usual haughty, holier than thou AOL attitude. Sigh. Oh Well.

  27. Unberable permalink
    May 28, 2012 6:17 pm

    I completely agree , with many medical symptoms stated above. I also suffered from memory loss , but fortunately have stopped doing the SK and feeling ,normal and happy now.
    But i see that many senior teachers are always , depressed, sick and bored and eternally unhappy with RS as they don’t get quality time with him, or find that he is more partial to some famous and money making teachers than them.

    Many of them i know are flat broke and depressed ,but flash a bright smile and provide ample amount of false knowledge to devotees and then curse fellow teaches in private. With such a stressful life, i completely understand why they are unable to follow the knowledge.
    If this is spirituality , then i am surely not interested.

  28. "The Revolver" Anonymous permalink
    May 29, 2012 8:06 am

    memory loss: From 2008 to 2011 I did SK everyday with long SK every sunday. Along with getting refreshed on that day, brainwashed to spend more money on charities etc., I developed strange memory loss. I had a severe short term memory loss (not able to remember the points I thought of a couple of minutes before, so I saw myself using post it notes more often, quite embarrassingly sometimes).

    After I took the bold decision of leaving the SK crutch, I am much better off at work and in personal life too. Infact I thank SK for letting me know what freedom is. Now I laugh when someone says, you have “low prana”, “more rajas because I ate onion??”, more tamas because I took a aubergine dish?…I proved them wrong by having a load of aubergines before my interview and guess what, tamas made sure that I succeeded in the interview 🙂 :), I don’t blame the teacher who said this, because I know the teacher needs help too…just believe in yourself, and don’t give your remote control to some teacher…oh as one of the knowledge points of basic course says, “Don’t become football of others’ (teachers’) opinion”.

  29. Nithin permalink
    May 29, 2012 12:33 pm

    Looks like HARSHAL is a very close associate and relative of Ravi, i see the same manners and civilisation in him, only difference is harshal says in the Blog they speaks in the family gathering, starting from Vishalakshi, Venkatraman…etc
    Relax Harshal, I personally understand your saffocation of knowing the truth and being with untruth…:))

  30. NoToAOL permalink
    May 29, 2012 1:02 pm

    @ANON
    “Can you write detailed and legally sound complaint letters using laws in USA on following different issues against AOL body in USA, apex body in Switzerland and India? I understand as they are represented in USA all other associates can be made party in USA.”

    It can be done. But it wouldn’t be wise to discuss any legal strategy on a public blog not to reveal too much information to AoL.

    @Doc
    Could you please contact me via e-mail to discuss what can be done?

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