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Control Strategies Employed By The Master

June 4, 2012

by Freedom Found

As you go closer into AOL and RS you see a lot of unpleasant things which leaves us with a bad taste and also wondering whether RS is really spiritual, leave alone enlightened.!!!

I have noticed several patterns that RS uses constantly to Keep his business going.

  1. He constantly criticizes people for the work/seva that they have done, and creates a sense of worthlessness in people, so that they can forever keep working harder to please him, which is never going to happen.
  2. He constantly leaves people in a state of confusion/flux with his decisions. At the end of his decisions, people have understood things differently and each one feels the other will work hence creating conflict and chaos.
  3. He also gives different decisions to different people regarding the same issue and causes conflict, later while the fight between people has gone out of hands, then RS intervenes and creates an act as though he’s is resolving issues, (which actually he isn’t) and gets away with this image that he is so good and holy and people around him are villains.
  4. He loves soo much attention, that in one of the satsang organised form him, the organizers had gone out of their way to organize a special entry and exit way for RS so that he could leave without the crowds bothering him, but guess what RS did in that satsang? He left the stage after the program through the exit and when he saw that no people were there to see him, he turned around and ran towards that crowd to show his care and love for people (which actually his need for attention and money and power camouflaged)
  5. He conveniently surrounds him with brainwashed devotees who don’t stand in the way of his decisions, irregular accounts and other malpractices.
  6. if anybody around him is found questioning his actions/decisions or the happenings in Trusts or AoL, they are then removed from their posts without any reason and the person is left in a state of shock wondering whether it is good to be truthful or not, because RS is surely not being truthful.
  7. He makes sure that no policies or procedures are created, so that he can do anything at his convenience and keep his family business going while people around take the blame for all the irregularities, while he gets away scot free.
  8. He systematically tracks down rich and influential people and gives them personal attention, so that he can use their money and influence in the time of conflict resolution between countries, rescue work during calamities, to promote his products, lobby for the Nobel Peace Prize, run his non-existent seva projects and then finally get away with telling people that RS has saved the world. What a load of BS !!
  9. He hires cheap labor in the from of, asking a lot of well-placed top professionals and qualified youth to give up their careers and work full-time for him. These brainwashed people think RS is God and he will take care of them for the rest of their lives and make themselves sacrificial goats. After a few years when they are quite frustrated with the Organisation and realize the above truth about their beloved RS, they can neither leave the organisation as they are no longer socially fit for a career, nor can they remain as they are frustrated. They continue to forcibly be part of the Organisation, while RS’s money is ticking.

Brilliant strategy!!!

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52 Comments
  1. Venkatesh permalink
    June 4, 2012 7:02 am

    very good insight!!

  2. June 4, 2012 9:06 am

    Freedom found. You got it totally as it is. Superbly told and shared. I have directly experienced and can absolutely vouch for each one of the 9 points you have mentioned. Excellent post. Should help a lot of existing volunteers to think for themselves.

  3. Nithin permalink
    June 4, 2012 9:48 am

    It is true and my experiance is the same with Ravi and his business partners.

  4. VSS permalink
    June 4, 2012 10:10 am

    @ Freedom Found

    This is an extremely insightful post and extremely heartfelt too.

    I can almost predict the responses of those who will defend Mr. Ravi Shankar’s behaviour.

    For # 1 — they’ll say — this is “standard satguru behaviour” meant to facilitate growth.

    Well, if that is the case, then Skywalker and Klim, are Mr. Ravi Shankar’s satgurus. Why did he take them to court?

    For # 2 — they’ll say — this conflict and chaos is caused by lack of complete submission and surrender — people should think from beyond their intellect.

    Well, hello? Do you know any sane and thinking human being who doesn’t think using their intellect?

    For # 3 — they’ll say — you have to see the context in which he says something.

    Well, then please don’t expect anyone to believe in someone who behind the closed doors of his cult indulges in the non-verifiable jugglery of concepts (read: mumbo jumbo), and on BBC says, people should not get into the non-verifiable jugglery of concepts. Then, allow some people to say that AoL is a humanitarian organization and others to say it is a dangerous cult. It’s one and the same thing, right?

    For # 4 — they’ll say — it’s the love — people love him and he loves them.

    Well, then please don’t mind people who don’t love him and who he doesn’t love. Loving him cannot be the only evidence of sanity. Some people love the colour blue and some people don’t. Why question the personal choice of people? You can’t force someone to love someone else and abuse those who don’t love someone, can you?

    For # 5 — they’ll say — it’s devotion — not brainwashing.

    Well, then why question those who are not devoted enough to ignore malpractices because they do not blindly surrender their intellect and integrity to the master? How can you force someone to surrender their intellect and integrity to someone you are devoted to?

    For # 6 — they’ll say — no one can understand why he is doing something for their good.

    Well, it’s again about submission and surrender, and you can’t force someone to submit and surrender to his intellect and sense of integrity just because you did so.

    For # 7 — they’ll say — AoL is too large to have policies and procedures.

    Well, where there is a will, there is a way. If he has the will to have policies and procedures in place, he will put policies and procedures in place. Thirty years is a long time to accomplish this.

    For # 8 — they’ll say — what’s wrong with seeking influential people if it leads to peace?

    Well, if you truly believe that, what are you doing here reading this blog? Why are you not at peace and attacking critics left, right and centre, including questioning their sanity?

    For # 9 — they’ll say — people love to work for him because he inspires them.

    Well, then why are some people feeling exploited and abused by his holiness? If he was truly holy, then no one would report exploitation and abuse, would they?

    But, these are just my predictions based on what I’ve been reading on this blog. I am not stating facts. I have no supernatural powers to be able to predict what someone will say. I am a mere mortal — and these are just words — they are not bombs.

    • DrPeter (aka drpetersutphen) permalink
      June 4, 2012 2:07 pm

      Exactly what VSS said!!

  5. Anonymous permalink
    June 4, 2012 12:38 pm

    @Freedom Found, These points are very important. When a society is very competitive, and youth find it difficult to find good employment even with a good education, people like RS come forward to take advantage of them. That’s what’s happening right now. He gives a cheap ‘high’ in the form of satsang, some breathing, a course or 2, and then ropes unsuspecting, unemployed (or even employed) people into his organization to use their talents for his own, and his family’s benefits. It’s truly sad and sickening. But the problem is that these are people who many times are discouraged because of the job market, so they feel happy to find a group of people like them, and something to do. They end up hurting their families and themselves by joining AOL. Another problem is that the ‘high’ seems very real when one is in the middle of it. I have experienced it myself. The mind goes blank, you feel exhilirated, happy, temporarily. More permanent people in the organization tell you that it’s Guru’s Grace, and the Guruji is Krishna, etc. It’s easy to fall into this trap. There is a movie about an Indian in America who did a movie, pretending to be a big guru. He knew he was not a guru, and that he didn’t have any knowledge. He just pretended. And he made a movie out of it! And people experienced the same ‘high’ around him. His name is Kumare, and he was from the State of New Jersey in America. Please look this up and read the site. Anyone thinking of joining Ravi Shankar needs to see this movie.

    • Wanderer..sid permalink
      June 6, 2012 8:56 am

      you are correct. young people are used, i have seen people giving up everything for sewa/ satsang, in fact i was one of them few years ago, but i somehow got to realize that i am being ***** on the name of grace, better future, life love and all. i hope others will also realize this…

  6. Tahir-ul-Qadri permalink
    June 4, 2012 2:51 pm

    @ topic

    Seems like a very cheap and biased view of AOL and RS. RS cannot be totally blamed for everything in here. Some of the blame should be shared by the mad indecent crowd following with no understanding of basics.

    Even in spirituality , some people are craving for “position” , “influence”, “business prospects” , “recognition” etc. They bring in the same notions , problems and petty issues that plague the materialistic world into orgs like AOL. People skilled in Accounting, Social networking, Marketing and sales, psychology, medicine , engineering, interior decoration, cooking , painting, law, wall street etc. are bringing in these into AOL to further their “standing” within AOL. Some of these cruel creations of God almighty are in very “positions” within AOL. Then there are fools who adore, serve, respect and follow these demonic position holders of AOL. This first circle of AOL consists of mostly egoistic demons who are most short tempered morons on planet earth. On a podium , they are skilled at acting out with smiles. But in real life, these are the most insecure short tempered people.

    The hundreds of people who are repeating the courses , wasting money and doing free seva should be blamed for not using their brain in understanding the futility behind following the first circle of AOL.

    I’m sure that the first circle and the mad crowd are after “something” and they dont have an understanding of a lot of principles that RS mentions in his discourses . Some of RS’s techniques and teachings are actually pretty good and one should use one’s vivechana in not wasting their time and money beyond a limit.

    Stop worshiping RS and his money making inner circle . Respect RS for what he is teaching and try to understand it. Do not run after him . Have the courage to introspect.

    • DrPeter permalink
      June 4, 2012 9:58 pm

      @ Tahir-ul-Qadri
      I agree with your observations of the dynamics of large spiritual groups while not agreeing with the broad brush of “egoist demons” you paint them with! All types of people are drawn to a spiritual teaching for many different reasons. I’ve seen the full range from saints to sinners. But all that is relevant is your relationship to the spiritual teaching/guru because they are one and the same. There are no inner or outer circles of closeness or distance from the guru. That is all superficial distinction of the mind. There’s you and the guru and you decide the closeness or distance of that relationship. And yes, all of us are after “something”. Ultimately that something is Brahman.

    • Anonymous permalink
      June 5, 2012 6:37 am

      He makes people run after him. Don’t blame the crowd completely for that maddening chaos. He ensures that the chasing game is never finished, and whenever he senses a dip in the chaos, he ventures into the crowd to rekindle it. The chasing by people is his way of announcing to the crowd about his popularity and celebrity status.

  7. AOLite permalink
    June 5, 2012 3:17 am

    To all the people posting here and those who think that AOL and SSRS are frauds i have a simple question.If they are so bad how come the organisation has grown to this size and how come people of 150 countries are followers of Guruji?? Dont they have brains to figure out what is right or wrong? Replies awaited.

    • The Doctor permalink
      June 5, 2012 7:28 am

      The short answer to your question is that AoL/SSRS are both good and bad, but AoL is vehemently denying any of the bad and claiming it is all good. This blog contains solid evidence about a great deal of the bad, and if you are really sincere in trying to seek answers, you will at the very least read all of the posts under Recommended Posts on the right hand side where you will discuss much of this evidence. Though if you are happy with AoL, then surely you wouldn’t care what we think?

      One more question for you: Christianity has at least a billion followers worldwide if not considerably more, and I’m sure most if not all of them have brains as you put it. Does that mean that Christianity is all good and not without its problems? What about Judaism or Islam?

      • Harshal permalink
        June 5, 2012 9:19 am

        “Does that mean that Christianity is all good and not without its problems?”

        The problem with this logic is that these things have done much more good than bad and hence continue to grow even today. Jut like AOL continues to grow.

        The point is are you not ready to accept this. If you did, you would also post ,posts with information about the good work done by AOL.

      • The Doctor permalink
        June 5, 2012 10:34 am

        So now you’re admitting to all the bad in AoL whereas previously you claimed we were being negative and defamatory? Well, I call this progress!

        Funnily enough, you accuse me of being illogical but the point you yourself have made above is actually completely illogical. As I’ve stated before, if there’s one thing the majority of people on this blog believe, it’s that AoL does at least some good, and that people benefit from it. I’ve never denied this, and I don’t believe anyone else has either. We all accept it, and many of us have already posted accounts of the benefits we’ve had from AoL. You yourself have read these because you’ve commented on them, so I’m quite surprised you’ve asked us to post about them again. We also link to a whole bunch of pro-AoL blogs on the right hand side, and we have always encouraged people to read everything they can and make up their own minds.

        If AoL continues to grow, then wonderful! If it doesn’t, then great! But it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on anything which we’re discussing on this blog. None.

        If it does more good than bad or more bad than good is purely subjective. Each person should be presented with all the facts – without any of the BS – and should be allowed to come to their own conclusion about AoL based on these facts. AoL states so many things which are clearly BS, and we point these out on these blogs. You may believe all the BS which AoL spouts, but many of us don’t. Seriously, we have debunked a great many things here, and whenever we question any pro-AoL supporters about them, we get the silent treatment, or abuse, or just outright lies from the likes of yourself, Dr Peter, or so many of the others.

        And honestly, whether AoL continues to grow or not is completely irrelevant to anything we’re saying here. It doesn’t make any of the things we’ve written less true.

    • VSS permalink
      June 5, 2012 7:48 am

      @ AOLite [June 5, 2012 3:17 am]

      Numbers and global coverage mean nothing. How many smokers do you think there are in the world today ? Does that mean smoking is good for health ? So, my answer to your question is, yes, human beings are not particularly known for their “wisdom”. They don’t always know what’s good for them — nor do they act upon their knowledge easily. If that was the case, tobacco companies would have been compelled into going out of business a very, very long time ago.

      Secondly, Mr. Ravi Shankar said that SK is like an intuitive poem. (Ref: His BBC interview) Some people didn’t like that poem. Some people were harmed by it. After reading their stories, some people don’t want to try it. After reading the possible harmful effects of smoking, some people don’t want to try smoking. If you like SK, practice it by all means. But, how do you justify SK being sold to people without people being made aware of possible side effects?

      • Mark Swann permalink
        June 5, 2012 10:33 am

        I have many personal experiences with the organization……But i dont want to reveal my identity since i am still involved with them……

    • Anon permalink
      June 5, 2012 3:22 pm

      Idi Amin, Kadhafi, Sadam Hussain, etc. have been in power many years too …. they had followers too. People supported, followed and obeyed Hitler as well. There are many organization that do wrong and yet remain in power more than they should. How come you don’t have the brains to think holistically? When you can only see “good”, only “good” in one thing or person, then, question yourself and your convictions, not those who doubt it. Santa does not exist! And every saint had a problem and a wrong doing. In fact, saints are not that “saintly” either. It’s all political move. Problem with AoLites is that – one side thinking, with no critical thinking. Recover some brain cells and make them work! Now let me ask you another question: if AoL is that good and RS that superb and god-like, why is he so worried about people speaking out? If he had nothing to hide, he would not worry at all … would he? If he was that spiritual, he would not mind people talking freely, anything they feel or think … would he? Ask yourself that question and if you are going to reply, make sure it’s intelligent and thought through with critical thinking! Thanks.

  8. Harshal permalink
    June 5, 2012 10:53 am

    “So now you’re admitting to all the bad in AoL whereas previously you claimed we were being negative and defamatory?”

    Dont put your words in my mouth fakedoc. They stink.

    First , before you accuse others of lying this blog is a big lie. It says ‘Critique of The Art of Living’. This is not a critique. This is all negativity.There is a difference between critique and criticism. Obviously you are totally ignorant about it. You accuse Peter of lying- you are just scared of him, because he cuts through all your BS.

    Second, if you read my earlier posts where my sanity was still preserved before being exposed to the ecological fallacies on these blog- I have always maintained and I quote myself – ‘the good work done by AOL completely and totally outweighs the small negatives’. How can anything be all good?

    Third, I asked you about a main post. Did you ever start a topic which completely discusses good things about AOL(since you agree that it does some good). Typically you start with something good and then end it with negative comments -largely contradicting yourselves.

    Finally , do you think this blog is presenting all the facts about AOL when you say “Each person should be presented with all the facts”. This cant be true. For the simple reason that you allow people with absolutely no experience with AOL/SK to throw mud on it.

    PS: congratulations on that new thing.

    • The Doctor permalink
      June 5, 2012 12:48 pm

      Harshal – we’ve been here so many times before you still sound like a broken record playing the same monotonous track over and over again. So you’re really upset by everything you’re reading on this blog? But, you’ve never actually denied the things we write about. Isn’t that a little telling? Surely if you had any modicum of sanity about you (which from what you’ve written above and from everything else we know about you it really seems like you don’t) you would either a) challenge what is written here instead of whining about it, or b) not waste any time reading this blog and get on with your life? But you don’t. You persist in visiting this blog, and just end up showing people how badly a danggerous religious cult can brainwash someone.

      I accuse you and Peter of lying on this blog because – you do. I’ve pointed out every single occasion when either of you have lied, things you have both written are recorded here for all to see, and then subsequently you both change your stories and end up contradicting yourselves. And you accuse people on this blog of contradicting themselves?!

      But the worst thing is you both continue to pretend that you’re not lying in spite of all the evidence which shows you are lying! This I find truly amazing. Thankfully people here have already started to see through Peter’s BS as they saw through yours a long time ago. Peter is just a little better at hiding it, but now that he’s been exposed he doesn’t stand much of a chance at keeping up any pretense that he’s here in any capacity other than damage control, in which he’s failing miserably.

      And no, I’m not “scared” of Peter, I just find it annoying that he lies through his teeth and then denies it and has changed his story on so many occasions, including writing different stories under different pseudonyms. And he has NEVER once “cut through any BS” – this is just another lie of yours. I have NEVER once knowingly lied on this blog, EVER. I have certainly made a couple of small mistakes (the Nobel Prize in Stockholm was one of them – big deal) but I acknowledged making a mistake each time I did. You and Peter on the other hand both continue with your BS long after you are called on it and you just end up digging yourselves deeper and deeper to the point whereby you lose all credibility with any readers of this blog. This is exactly what has happened with both of you. No one takes anything either of you say seriously at all, least of all you.

      Seriously, ask yourself if anything you have ever written on this blog has ever done anything whatsoever to help AoL. If anyone from AoL reads your comments, what do you suppose most of them would think about you? What about people who have never been involved with AoL? Do you think they’ll want to join AoL have seeing how fanatical and messed up you are? Really, think about all these things before you write on here. I repeat for the nth time, EVERYTHING YOU WRITE ON THIS BLOG ONLY DAMAGES ART OF LIVING. Some day I really hope you’ll get this into your head. But I’m not that hopeful.

  9. VSS permalink
    June 5, 2012 12:21 pm

    @ anyone who is reading

    http://www.artofliving.org/in-en

    All the benefits of being in AoL can be accessed by visiting the above link.

    Further, the judge who adjudicated in the matter between this blog and AoL has no first hand experience of AoL courses or SK.

    Unlike me, she has no first hand experience of AoL’s “knowledge sheets” either.

    I support all orders passed by the judge. I think all orders by the judge are fair. The judge has clearly stated that any individual has the right to actively discourage people from joining what he or she perceives as a dangerous religious cult. This is an irrefutable, irreversible, and incontrovertible fact.

    In my humble opinion, AoL is a dangerous religious cult and I actively discourage you from joining it — and if you have joined it — then I actively encourage you to leave it. It is my right to do so — by law. It is your right to actively do the same or the reverse — by law.

    At the end of the day, these are just words on a blog. If they bother you, please don’t read them. The blog can’t walk out of your visual range but you can walk out of the visual range of the blog.

    We live by the rule of law — not by any other rule or whim of X, Y or Z.

  10. Anonymous permalink
    June 5, 2012 12:55 pm

    I don’t understand why anyone posting in this blog has to prove themselves to those in Art of Living who don’t want to believe their experiences. Or that anyone posting here should be required to post something positive about AOL. If my experience was negative, with very little positive, why should I have to talk about the latter? If I buy a defective gadget, and it has a lovely looking cover, made of very nice material which I like a lot, when I review it, I’m highly unlikely to praise the outer cover, but will probably complain about the fact that the gadget doesn’t work as advertised. I feel no compunction whatsoever to say anything nice about Ravi Shankar or his organization. He and they have ruined lots of people’s lives. Just because they continue to grow means nothing. Lots of fascist organizations grew before someone dared to speak up, overcoming their fear of reprisals. Skywalker and many others posting here that I’ve read have posted their own experiences. Some others had something nice to say about AOL. I don’t, except that the ashram looks nice, people smile nicely before you know them, when they want your money and service, or association because they know you are ‘connected’ and will bring more people to them. Ravi Shankar used to have nice looking hair. Some of his teachers are attractive to look at. Ah — here’s one — the satsangs sometimes even rock! The music can be very nice (if you overlook the personality and qualities of the singer most of the time). Their advertising techniques are stellar. These are all positives. Happy Harshal and AOL Lite? Some positive things said here. Sorry they aren’t what you’d like to hear.

    • "The Revolver" Anonymous permalink
      June 5, 2012 10:43 pm

      your positives made me laugh :), nice one!

  11. Harshal permalink
    June 5, 2012 1:00 pm

    ” I have certainly made a couple of small mistakes”

    Ya right. Are these things not subjective then?

    When you do it it is ‘small’ and when others do it its a apocalyptic holon. What about the fact that you kept barking at me calling me an AOL teacher when I was repeating again and again that I am not?

    What about the fact that your blog comments about the YLTP program and certain individuals in it, which you later on redacted?

    My problem is that you throw your light of justice on the world and judge it based on where you are sitting.

    I dont think I am doing any damage to AOL because all AOL people can see through your baloney . For others, if they have some good karma they will go and do the course anyway. So dont worry about damage to AOL, because ironically it is something you are trying to do- rather unsuccessfully.

    • The Doctor permalink
      June 5, 2012 2:01 pm

      “Ya right. Are these things not subjective then?”

      No – they aren’t subjective. I made a mistake, I admitted I made a mistake, there’s nothing subjective about it.

      You and Peter lie, you are called on it, yet you continue to lie further and to deny that you have ever lied.

      “What about the fact that you kept barking at me calling me an AOL teacher when I was repeating again and again that I am not?”

      Again, I admitted I was wrong, and apologized. But so what? Does this make anything else written here untrue? This represents about 0.00000000001% of what is written on this blog, and it’s something which only you are bothered about. What about the other 99.9999999%?

      “What about the fact that your blog comments about the YLTP program and certain individuals in it, which you later on redacted?”

      For the record, I was and still remain completely against that post being taken down. It raised some very valid questions which no one from Art of Living or IAHV was able to answer. Those questions are still outstanding and will be raised again in a future post. Skywalker took it down as a matter of goodwill, and you even commended him at the time. You also told us that you weren’t going to visit this blog again, but then look what happened.

      “I dont think I am doing any damage to AOL […]”

      If you genuinely can’t see that you’re damaging AoL, you seriously need help. Honestly. I’m not saying this in a bad way although it’s impossible for it to sound otherwise. I’ve asked you before, talk to other people you know about what you’re writing here, especially AoL people, and see what they tell you. That Dr Peter supports your fanatical rantings and calls them “enthusiasm” is also very telling of Dr Peter and his not-very-well-hidden fanatical views.

      […] because all AOL people can see through your baloney .

      If there really was any “baloney” here, don’t you think you or someone else might have actually pointed it out by now? I’ve invited you many times in the past to do this but to date you and all others have failed to do so. If you can show me what is “baloney” on this blog, I will personally highlight this fact, take down or at the very least redact any offending post, and apologize for it. I have said enough times I won’t tolerate any lies on this blog, no matter who tells them, and I stand by that.

      So, it’s your call. Show me the baloney 😉

      • June 5, 2012 2:17 pm

        Harshal,

        In my opinion, you have created more damage here for AOL than all the others who have ever posted here. That is seriously good karma. Enjoy

      • Jr. permalink
        June 5, 2012 5:32 pm

        lol. Good point IO. Harshal has probably saved more people from AOL than anyone else on here. His continuous stream of baloney talk will continue to do so as long as he he keeps posting. His talks with Doctor are like watching a 4 year old argue with a parent. I’m hoping someday, one of Harshal’s posts will have some truth in it.

      • The Doctor permalink
        June 5, 2012 6:12 pm

        @Jr,

        You are being unnecessarily unkind – to 4 year-old children!

        Every child I know from 3-5 years old who is able to talk may argue with their parents from time to time, but they can be reasoned with very easily. If you point out their mistakes, they acknowledge them. If you teach them that it’s bad to lie, they learn very quickly to avoid lying. If you catch them telling small lies and tell them about it, they admit to it straight away and apologize. If you tell them that they’re doing something wrong which will damage their chances of getting something they want in the future, they will understand immediately and will quickly change their behaviour.

        And most children I know – whether they are able to talk yet or not – have much better communication skills than Harshal will ever have, and he’s a grown adult. Go figure. 😉

    • Dayalu permalink
      June 5, 2012 8:18 pm

      It is normal for people with Integrity to acknowledge their own mistakes. Harshal will never understand that, neither will his guru.

  12. Harshal permalink
    June 5, 2012 2:54 pm

    “Dr Peter supports your fanatical rantings and calls them “enthusiasm””

    Sorry. You just done get it. He made a joke. JOKE . -Humorous way to expressing things. You cant see it that way. I don’t blame you for that. Cant blame a myopic for his short-sightedness.

    You want to see baloney? Just read all the posts of ‘you know who’. Even your friends like Mangal/IO/and several others have pointed that out…….so many times. You even wrote a post on it ‘tone on this blog’

    You said and I quote “but that is no reason to just lash out at everything and everyone connected with AoL” .

    You acknowledged that there was this baloney going on(nonsense talk).

    So when you say there is no baloney on this blog you are just plain lying. Sorry to break it for you this way old man.

    • The Doctor permalink
      June 5, 2012 3:12 pm

      Nice try Harshal, but that’s not what you were talking about originally. On so many occasions now you have accused me and many others of LYING on this blog, and of this blog being “defamatory”. And yet every time I call you on this, you are unable to produce a single piece of evidence to support your accusation and you just end up trying to twist your own words. Just like you’ve done here when you tried to change the definition of lying to “nonsense”, even though that is clearly not what you intended originally. You certainly might think that what we’re talking about is “nonsense”, but that’s purely subjective and it’s not a point of view I or many others happen to hold. And it certainly doesn’t imply in any way that we’re lying, which is something that can be determined objectively.

      So I invite you once again, and I will continue to do this, show me any evidence that we are lying on this blog and that we are being defamatory.

    • Mangal permalink
      June 5, 2012 10:51 pm

      “Sorry to break it for you this way old man.”

      Harshal hates 3 categories of people
      1. old men (farts)
      2. women (bitches)
      3. anyone less-educated than him (fools)

      similar attitude as jacob ezekial who posted earlier on the blog in support of RaviShankar

    • Anonymous permalink
      June 6, 2012 12:04 pm

      Harshal, are you STILL posting here??? LOL Get a job, dude.

  13. Harshal permalink
    June 5, 2012 3:34 pm

    sorry that you are having problems with memory/reading or what not.

    You said “So, it’s your call. Show me the baloney”

    I showed you the baloney which you had acknowledged when you said “but that is no reason to just lash out at everything and everyone connected with AoL”

    Even after acknowledging that there is non-sense talk on the blog(baloney) you say that there is no baloney and again invite me to show it. This is just plain lying.

    Have showed you both baloney and and your lies. Have fun with it.

    • The Doctor permalink
      June 5, 2012 4:08 pm

      No, I think you’re just confirming that you have some serious issues and you are unable to understand basic English. Which you’ve already shown us on many occasions previously so this won’t come as a surprise to anyone. The fact that you persist in doing this even after having it pointed out to you so many times is a little concerning, but again, not surprising.

      I’m really sorry to burst your bubble, but in that sentence you have quoted I do NOT acknowledge that anything on this blog is “baloney”, nonsense or a lie. You are just making this up, ergo, lying. Sure you can continue to claim I acknowledge something, and twist the meaning of certain words to suit your arguments, but at the end of the day I don’t really know who it is you’re trying to convince. And if you really want to see what is nonsense, go back and re-read what you wrote above. In fact, re-read the majority of what you’ve written here on this blog. Because that is something which I will acknowledge is a load of baloney, as I’m sure most people will. Sorry, but that is a fact. You can continue with this going backwards and forwards, but honestly each time you write anything you just end up making yourself look more and more deranged.

      So please, get your facts straight before you post here. And get a good dictionary whilst you’re at it.

      • Harshal permalink
        June 5, 2012 4:25 pm

        “I do NOT acknowledge that anything on this blog is “baloney””

        You wrote a whole post on how there is so much nonsense talk=talk without any reason or purpose=talks with unnecessary lashing out at everything and everyone connected with AoL.

        But I can understand. Its just those neurons getting old tired.

        I have serious doubts about your mental state. You practically live on this blog- all the time -24/7– making a big out fool of yourself. Please take some help. I am not joking or being derogatory. I mean it with all my earnest.

      • The Doctor permalink
        June 5, 2012 6:02 pm

        You need to go back and read that post over and over again until you finally grasp what it’s about. NOWHERE in that post have I mentioned that anything is “nonsense”, and NOWHERE do I even hint at it. You’ve tried to twist everything I’ve said by claiming I said something I didn’t, which in English we call “lying”. You then further accuse me of the very same thing, but have produced nothing to substantiate it other than your own definition of a of a word which it’s obvious you don’t understand the meaning of at all.

        So I urge you, please get a dictionary and look up the word “nonsense”. Then you might get an insight as to how much of what you have written here amounts to nothing more than complete nonsense. Please do this for me.

        And whilst you’re at it, use the dictionary to look up a whole host of other words, like “lying”, “twisting facts”, “negativity”, “defamatory” and “logic”. Because until you grasp the meanings of these and many other words you use whose meanings you clearly don’t understand, it’s completely pointless trying to have a conversation with you.

      • VSS permalink
        June 6, 2012 12:58 pm

        @ The Doctor [June 5, 2012 6:02 pm]

        I am very surprised to see so many posts from Harshal that do not contain profanity. It seems your constructive action of not allowing any more comments containing profanity has been rather effective. You were able to achieve something that AoL did not succeed in achieving in years. So, you deserve standing ovation for your stupendous achievement, Mister Moderator. Well done!

        (As for the baloney, wise people say that it’s best left to serve as an ingredient for baloney sandwiches — and we all know who all are trying to make those sandwiches on this blog — whether intentionally or unintentionally. I do have faith in the innate intelligence of readers — they are very discerning.)

  14. Harshal permalink
    June 5, 2012 3:42 pm

    ” I admitted I made a mistake, there’s nothing subjective about it”

    good try . I did not say anything about admitting the mistake. Whether the mistake is ‘small’ or ‘apocalyptic’ is subjective. Correct me if I am wrong on this one. Anyway, if I were to be wrong on this it would just be a small mistake- or will it be a big one?

  15. Harshal permalink
    June 5, 2012 6:19 pm

    “it’s completely pointless trying to have a conversation with you”

    Heard that so many times before..please get some help.

  16. June 5, 2012 7:53 pm

    all bloggers LEARN not to reply to shit posts like harshal to save ur energy to better things

  17. Subramaniam Iyer permalink
    June 5, 2012 11:20 pm

    Doctor, dont waste your time and energy replying Harshal’s posts,

  18. Wanderer..sid permalink
    June 6, 2012 8:45 am

    true. i also observed all this being among people in AOL. your 8 and 9th points are very true,.

  19. Wanderer..sid permalink
    June 6, 2012 10:02 am

    @AOLite ; If they are so bad how come the organisation has grown to this size and how come people of 150 countries are followers of Guruji?? Dont they have brains to figure out what is right or wrong? Replies awaited.

    Answer is ‘We’.! We, the people, don’t use our brain when it comes to guru and god stuff. we don’t believe them sometimes, but we never question.
    when i was in AOL ,i used to think AOL does a lot of work for people and society but when i got involved with AOL closely, i got to see things very clearly, i could actually understood how all that work. people are constantly framed from the day one. they are taught to see things as told. you can only understand this when you will spend much time in AOL and with AOL people. there are very few service projects which are actually useful for society, rest is just bringing people in.
    your question about size and people is not logical, i know many people who did AOL courses and never came back, while doing service (bringing people to AOL), whenever we called those participant many of them refused to talk, they even asked us not to call in future, what i am trying to say is there are very few people in AOL, and these are the people who keep on coming to all satsang / courses/ poojas in their areas. if many are coming, many are moving out too. the number of people who only turn up once or twice in a month for follow up is increasing.
    teachers monitor their participants from the day one , all the problems of participants come to only one solution – more courses and more services. nothing else.
    we all want to feel important and valuable in life, this feeling is created and strengthen in AOL by quoting different instances and people start visualizing them thinking they will also have these kind of experience, but most of them never experience any thing- when they experience nothing, solution again comes to one point- more courses/ more service , make your sadhna strong. and because some where deep inside we all want to feel grace, love and joy, we believe in it.
    now i tell you something very strange, perhaps you won’t believe, most of the people in aol have same kind of experiences, they think, perceive and speaks in the same way, if you don’t trust me, go check it your self. talk to your friends. in the beginning, when i came to AOL i never got any chance to see and meet Sri sri, i felt i was being ignored, i started feeling bad and am not good enough, have not done enough service, my sadhna is not strong etc. and i was told that it’s leela of god, he is playing with you but when i shared it and more, with my few close AOl friends, they also have same experience. cycle was almost same.
    in all the courses, DSn and Advance, teachers experiences are almost same, – about money- about how guru ji knew their mind- their stories- experiences they quote as an example, its all almost same. because experiences are being planted in people.
    what i am trying to say is that , numbers don’t make anything big- its experiences of people. it’s how they feel, in AOl people are very insecure, mainly teachers. their is a ego battle going on between new young teachers and middle aged teacher. teacher’s performance is measured in terms of number of participants and organizing DSN/Advance course . you get to meet sri sri if you are doing well- means bringing big number of people, teachers who don’t perform- are rarely given any importance, teacher A can not ask teacher B’s participant for any sewa or volunteering work, teacher B must give permission otherwise what i have seen can’t be expressed. ( that innocent boy/girl/ volunteer/participant might end up facing something terribly bad) .

    • Anonymous permalink
      June 6, 2012 12:02 pm

      @Wanderer. Good points. You are lucky you were unable to see Ravi Shankar. Really. You are Blessed, and truly lucky. And that is possibly why you see the whole thing so clearly. You are correct that most people might do the course, go to a few satsangs and drift away. There are always ‘hardcore’ people who stick for awhile, then they also leave. When one starts to really know the Guruji, they either are too far gone (brainwashed) and stay, or, if there is something left of their brains, they leave, horrified at what they find. Of all the people in the organization who are insecure, I believe Ravi Shankar to be the most insecure of all! Having observed him closely, listened to his irrational rants, complaints, paranoia about many things, I concluded that he was not thinking clearly, so I left. I also saw that his intentions were not pure and just and right as one expects from a great Guruji. I really trusted him, really believed he might be Avatar (as he claimed) and found out fairly quickly that he was all business and numbers. “How many people came?” That’s all he seemed to care about. How many people could I bring to him, how much money was gained. Feel grateful that you saw through it without any investment of time and energy.

      • Wanderer..sid permalink
        June 7, 2012 9:41 am

        no, i invested money and a lot of my time. now i regret it. people have moved ahead in life and i am no where. actually this is a way AOL apply s, in the young age make people forget everything and get involved in various AOL process and work on the name of society, guru till they become habitual and timid, and when they will realize, it will be too late for them to go back, so they will anyway stay. basically people who come from middle class background and sincere get trapped in all this. its happening all over the country,
        some times it’s hard to accept that it all happened ; when my friends and family members ask me about AOL, i feel blank, i don’t get any thing to say- i spent my days in search of god and guru, ignoring my friends and family, and found nothing, a black hole.

    • Nithin permalink
      June 6, 2012 1:38 pm

      IN 2010 TRM at Germany: The location changed last moment because Ravi want to ensure that non grumbling Teachers only to come for TRM and also he was very much afraid of Klim and Skywalker 🙂
      When i represented for the country, he was looking in to the Account sheet and asking me how many people join in each session, need to work alot. This stupid fellow called us in TRM as relaxation for teachers and oppartunity to discuss teachers personal and family issue 1-2-1 and get good feel of Guru, rather he was comparing the income with other country and making us feel fools, that day i deciced to get rid of this dirty business man acting as GURU…

      • VSS permalink
        June 6, 2012 3:17 pm

        @ Nithin [June 6, 2012 1:38 pm]

        You are very wise. I wanted to ask you about what made you leave — now I can see clearly after reading your comment. I’ve read several comments on this blog about Mr. Ravi Shankar’s obsession with money. People don’t realize that this obsession gets transmitted to volunteers and they become obsessed with converting. I knew about AoL but I never thought it would ever affect my life. When I realized that it had spread its tentacles so slyly that my home was destroyed, I realized that what happened to me could happen to anybody. If there’s anything I can do to warn people about those tentacles, I’ll do it. No one should have to go through what I had to go through. I have still not recovered. Mr. Ravi Shankar talks about karma — the bad karma that he has accumulated by breaking homes is unforgivable. No amount of charity work is going to redeem him. He is abusing the sanctity of charity work if he is telling people charity work will take care of bad karma.

      • crystal.luc@yahoo.com permalink
        June 7, 2012 2:57 pm

        “IN 2010 TRM at Germany: The location changed last moment because Ravi want to ensure that non grumbling Teachers only to come for TRM and also he was very much afraid of Klim and Skywalker :)”

        Why does changing location matter if he was afraid, Nithin can yoi elaborate?

      • Anonymous permalink
        June 7, 2012 3:35 pm

        @ Wanderer, I’m really sorry to hear what happened to your life as a result of your association with Ravi Shankar and Art of Living. But here it is: I suffered immensely, and regretted having been involved. My closest friend was a ‘black sheep’ in his own family because of his association with AOL. It is truly difficult when you have given up your ties thinking that you are with a Sadguru, and going towards God, only to find out that AOL is a business, and RS couldn’t care less about what happens to you! But I never gave up on God, nor did my friend. We believed in God, still do, and after some time, really great positions, money, and finally acceptance back into the family, came to both of us. It took a bit of time. And it was wasted time. But it happened. God is not blind and deaf and stupid. God knows when someone is sincere and was seeking Him. He sees when someone like you has been cheated in that process, and will, through Divine Grace, help you. I don’t know how, but I know it’s so. God is very gracious to His Devotees. Try not to fear. When people in your family ask you about Art of Living just say: “I made a terrible mistake. You were right, I was wrong. I am going to make my life right somehow, with God’s help.” Again, I’m sorry to hear that you have suffered loss from this decision to join AOL. But all will be well 🙂

  20. Murali permalink
    June 6, 2012 4:49 pm

    @ DOCTOR

    please do not waste your your precious time and energy replying to the comments of Harshal.
    His comments make no sense , I don’t think anyone of us wastes much time reading through his blabbering rubbish.

    Please carry on writing some constructive things which expose AOL and posts which have helped heal several of us.

  21. Anonymous permalink
    June 7, 2012 11:21 am

    Harshal, your comments are way too low in it’s quality man. 😦

  22. Venkatesh permalink
    June 8, 2012 1:13 pm

    Latest ambition of SSRS

    wants to increase the number of followers he has on twitter . As usual in a very stategic manner he has asked his young tech savvy devotees to increase his twitter base ….

    ha ha so many desires after getting enlightenment

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